Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

AmintaMister
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Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by AmintaMister »

As any of you may know, the Zx Spectrum Recreated is a perfect repro Bluetooth of the original ZxSpectrum used with emulator.

It would work as bluetooth on MISTer Zx Spectrum core, mapping 1:1 the keys?

https://recreatedzxspectrum.com/index.php
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by cathrynmataga »

Maybe that would help. I was never exposed to spectrum computers, and I find using these cores with a PC keyboard pretty baffling. I press ctrl-1 and get !? That's just weird.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

cathrynmataga wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:56 am Maybe that would help. I was never exposed to spectrum computers, and I find using these cores with a PC keyboard pretty baffling. I press ctrl-1 and get !? That's just weird.
The original Spectrum keyboard layout is confusing when transferred to a PC keyboard.

If you are not familiar with the original keyboard it is easier to simulate the later Spectrums from Amstrad. The +2 and +3 both had a more traditional keyboard layout and by defaut single keypresses didn't print the keywords on screen, but single characters.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by cathrynmataga »

Good idea. I set ZXNext to +3 Basic, and tried poking around a little, maybe that is a little more normal. I am intrigued by the enthusiasm of the Spectrum community more than anything else. But these machines are a little quirky to those of us just dabbling in this.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

So has anyone tried this?
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

cathrynmataga wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:55 am Good idea. I set ZXNext to +3 Basic, and tried poking around a little, maybe that is a little more normal. I am intrigued by the enthusiasm of the Spectrum community more than anything else. But these machines are a little quirky to those of us just dabbling in this.
The Spectrum is definitely one of the most interesting machines, everything was just bare minimum, but it was enough. It is astonishing to see what people were able to achieve on a Spectrum back in the day (they got the complete R-Type running on that thing) and it is even more astonishing what people achieve today (take a look the titles from Zosya or Sanchez).
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by AmintaMister »

Ok, but anyone has tried the Zx Spectrum Recreated Bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer? Thanks!
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

_paul_ wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.
If it allows only individual letters can 't you just use the keyboard in +3 mode?
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

Chris23235 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:49 pm
_paul_ wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.
If it allows only individual letters can 't you just use the keyboard in +3 mode?
It's not very practical because many of the special characters that you access with symbol shift are not where they should be. So it's finding out where they are and then remembering the mapping.

Or is it possible to create a ZX Spectrum keyboard mapping configuration?
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by AmintaMister »

_paul_ wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 pm I got a Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard and tried this. Short version: it's not supported.

The keyboard has 2 modes. One (mode B) seems to be a proprietary mode only usable with the Recreated Spectrum applications. That's the mode that supports all the extended commands.
The other mode (mode A) is an ASCII mode, with which you can use the keyboard as a standard keyboard. Obviously this also works with the ZX Spectrum core but the extended commands are not accessible / supported. So it's fine if you want to play games and you want an original feel but pretty useless if you want to write a BASIC program.
A huge THANKS for your answer!
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by AmintaMister »

_paul_ wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:33 am Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html
So in this way is it possible to use with Mister?
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

AmintaMister wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:11 am
_paul_ wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:33 am Found details on the keyboard mappings here: http://www.zx81keyboardadventure.com/2 ... eated.html
So in this way is it possible to use with Mister?
Not really, the mapping would have to be added to the Core options to fully support the keyboard. If you want to use the Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboard I'd recommend the Fuse Spectrum Emulator, that has support for the keyboard built in.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by pgimeno »

I'm waiting for a Recreated keyboard to arrive. Meanwhile, can anyone confirm if what they see is consistent with that blog post? I'm willing to write a patch.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

pgimeno wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:09 pm I'm waiting for a Recreated keyboard to arrive. Meanwhile, can anyone confirm if what they see is consistent with that blog post? I'm willing to write a patch.
Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by pgimeno »

_paul_ wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:17 pm Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.
Thanks for the info. Just one more thing. When you release a key you actually see another key being pressed, right? Because the blog says that the keyboard sends key release events on key release:
however on release the keyboard send the code for 'v' being released.
(emphasis mine). I think the word I emphasized is wrong, according to the Fuse sources; I just wanted to confirm that you see other keys being pressed (not released as the blog says) when you release a key.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

pgimeno wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:53 pm
_paul_ wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:17 pm Just did a check, the mapping on my Recreated Spectrum is 100% consistent with the table posted in the blog post.
Thanks for the info. Just one more thing. When you release a key you actually see another key being pressed, right? Because the blog says that the keyboard sends key release events on key release:
however on release the keyboard send the code for 'v' being released.
(emphasis mine). I think the word I emphasized is wrong, according to the Fuse sources; I just wanted to confirm that you see other keys being pressed (not released as the blog says) when you release a key.
Using Notepad, if I press the [1] key on the keyboard, a single character “a” appears in Notepad. If I then release the [1] key, the character “b” appears in Notepad.

So pressing and releasing the [1] key resuls in “ab”.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by _paul_ »

Chris23235 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339
The number of Recreated ZX Spectrum keyboards produced are limited (I believe 10K), for some it may be easier to build your own than to have to wait until someone wants to sell theirs. But you would still need to do the mapping for a ZX Spectrum layout keyboard for the MiSTer core :?: .

Imo for most people it is easier to buy a keyboard like the Recreated ZX Spectrum than to embark on a hardware project as explained in the video.

Seeing the lack of development activity for the Recreated ZX Spectrum it is only a matter of time before support for iOS and Android expires and these keyboards become useless for most current owners. The number of software titles offered in the app is very limited and does not seem to be expanding. So more may be put on eBay before too long.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

_paul_ wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:19 am But you would still need to do the mapping for a ZX Spectrum layout keyboard for the MiSTer core :?: .
I don't think you have to do much mapping, because as far as I understand it the keyboard presses are already mapped by the Arduino and send out via USB in their final form. But here I am not 100% sure.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by akeley »

My advice would be to think twice if you're really going to use it before spending some time/money on getting it going. Cute as it is, the Spectrum keyboard really isn't the most functional one out there and not suited for anything more than casually typing something now and then.

I have a real 48kb ZX sitting next to me on my desk and once had plans to play a lot of text-based games on it, but gave up on that idea and delegated it to MiSTer + Logitech KB, and now using the ZX only for some Kempston-based gaming.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by MiSTer_Kirk »

The beauty of the Mister is that we can finally ditch that god-awful rubber keyboard, and use a modern keyboard, with modern cherry switches. I use a Razor Blackwidow, it's got lovely clicky blue switches, and soooo much better to use than a speccy keyboard.
I also have a few 48k spectrums here, and I try to use the keyboard less, and less. I now use a Comcon Joystick interface that allows keyboard-only games to be mapped to this device - just to avoid that keyboard.
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by AmintaMister »

Chris23235 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339
It will work out of the box in MISTer?
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Re: Zx Spectrum Recreated would work as bluetooth Keyboard with MISTer?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

AmintaMister wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:09 pm
Chris23235 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:59 am Wouldn't it be easier to use something like this?

https://www.hackster.io/news/a-zx-spect ... 5b0ceb6339
It will work out of the box in MISTer?
As it is working as a standard USB keyboard it should work out of the box.
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