Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

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Captain FPGA
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Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Some here have said that Duke Nukem 3D Atomic Edition runs about as fast as an intergalactic slug. Upon running the game I see that's the case. Now, on the surface level there didn't appear to be a fix, I learned from Flynn's video the game can run. Perhaps not at full speed but it can be forced into running about as well as the original Duke Nukem 3D. This can be achieved by installing the game and launching it from the command prompt.

I found that so long as you do not reboot back to the TDL, the core, or your whole mister it'll work. I venture to wonder is there a way to get those changes to stick? It be nice not to have to install the game every time I'd wanna play it at a better framerate. Also incase I wanted to activate dos32a extender for this game what's the run command? For instance to activate 32a on the OG Duke 3D it's:
cd games\dukenuke\duke3d\duke3d
dos32a duke3d.exe
Then it boots under dos32a, I attempted to guess it for Atomic Edition by adding "cd games\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d" then write "dos32a duke3d.exe" under that however all I get is the exit screen which reads "Thanks for playing Duke Nukem! Now visit our website on AOL! Do this to unlock wallpaper."

Forgot to ask, if there isn't currently a fix to make the game run regularly (although normal Duke 3D will) is it an issue with the core itself or is there something else I can do to remedy the speed problem?

Lastly, the Mister won't be my end all be all for this game. I'm about decipher what model OG XBOX I have so I can determine whether I'd need to remove the damned clock capacitor. Once that's done I'll be putting ao486 on there as well. The Mister version of the 486 can hold me in the meantime. Besides, even if I get the XBOX version running it'll be good for others if we can figure out whether there's a solution to my little problem right here and now. :D
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by FPGA64 »

3D Gaming is above the capability of the A0486 core. Its only roughly a 486 SX 33. You just have to accept the limits of the core.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by akeley »

I don't think Atomic Edition is much different performance wise than the standard one. And there shouldn't be any difference when running from command line vs the TDL, unless you choose some different settings in the setup.

I think the 320x200 version actually runs pretty well in ao486, even with detail on High. Of course you can do better in emulation, but for now (still a young core after all) I think it's a decent result.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

FPGA64 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:23 pm 3D Gaming is above the capability of the A0486 core. Its only roughly a 486 SX 33. You just have to accept the limits of the core.
I am, that's why I working on getting Duke 3D AT to run on Xbox. However if others have gotten the thing to run decent then I'd like to find out how.
akeley wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:38 pm I don't think Atomic Edition is much different performance wise than the standard one. And there shouldn't be any difference when running from command line vs the TDL, unless you choose some different settings in the setup.

I think the 320x200 version actually runs pretty well in ao486, even with detail on High. Of course you can do better in emulation, but for now (still a young core after all) I think it's a decent result.
That's what I thought too. It should run about as good as the original. It's just everytime I run it, unless I manually install it first it suffers from massive slowdown. I never altered anything in settings the core just came like that.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

Can't you just do the same as with the other Duke Nukem 3D version, and just replace the DOS4GW file with a renamed DOS32A file?

Also, before setting it up in TDL, I would suggest trying to get it run using DOS commands first. Personally I like to use Norton Commander for file management. Instead of having to type "CD games" etc etc. all the time, and it especially helps when moving files around and renaming them.

I would think Atomic Edition should run as well as the regular Duke 3D. But it might also default to run with 640x480, which will run pretty slowly, and like with the regular Duke 3D, it will also still have the slowdowns, since it is a bit below the recommended specs... and possibly a bit below minimum specs for this game. But it should be able to run without crashing.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:13 am Can't you just do the same as with the other Duke Nukem 3D version, and just replace the DOS4GW file with a renamed DOS32A file?

Also, before setting it up in TDL, I would suggest trying to get it run using DOS commands first. Personally I like to use Norton Commander for file management. Instead of having to type "CD games" etc etc. all the time, and it especially helps when moving files around and renaming them.

I would think Atomic Edition should run as well as the regular Duke 3D. But it might also default to run with 640x480, which will run pretty slowly, and like with the regular Duke 3D, it will also still have the slowdowns, since it is a bit below the recommended specs... and possibly a bit below minimum specs for this game. But it should be able to run without crashing.
Checked the options it's 320x200. Unless the settings are lying?

How to change Atomic Edition to dos32a through Norton Commander? How would I even access Norton Commander? This is the first I'm hearing about such a program.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

Captain FPGA wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:31 am
Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:13 am Can't you just do the same as with the other Duke Nukem 3D version, and just replace the DOS4GW file with a renamed DOS32A file?

Also, before setting it up in TDL, I would suggest trying to get it run using DOS commands first. Personally I like to use Norton Commander for file management. Instead of having to type "CD games" etc etc. all the time, and it especially helps when moving files around and renaming them.

I would think Atomic Edition should run as well as the regular Duke 3D. But it might also default to run with 640x480, which will run pretty slowly, and like with the regular Duke 3D, it will also still have the slowdowns, since it is a bit below the recommended specs... and possibly a bit below minimum specs for this game. But it should be able to run without crashing.
Checked the options it's 320x200. Unless the settings are lying?

How to change Atomic Edition to dos32a through Norton Commander? How would I even access Norton Commander? This is the first I'm hearing about such a program.
Ahh... if you do not already have it, then maybe its not the best solution, its just a bit faster to work with, gives a UI to browse files, copy them, renam them, extract compressed files, check sizes of directories and more. So it can help replace the DOS4GW file with a DOS32A file renamed to DOS4GW and the extension it has, I think its an exe file. This way you wont have to change how Duke3D is run, as it will be using DOS32A.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Caldor wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:57 am
Captain FPGA wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:31 am
Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:13 am Can't you just do the same as with the other Duke Nukem 3D version, and just replace the DOS4GW file with a renamed DOS32A file?

Also, before setting it up in TDL, I would suggest trying to get it run using DOS commands first. Personally I like to use Norton Commander for file management. Instead of having to type "CD games" etc etc. all the time, and it especially helps when moving files around and renaming them.

I would think Atomic Edition should run as well as the regular Duke 3D. But it might also default to run with 640x480, which will run pretty slowly, and like with the regular Duke 3D, it will also still have the slowdowns, since it is a bit below the recommended specs... and possibly a bit below minimum specs for this game. But it should be able to run without crashing.
Checked the options it's 320x200. Unless the settings are lying?

How to change Atomic Edition to dos32a through Norton Commander? How would I even access Norton Commander? This is the first I'm hearing about such a program.
Ahh... if you do not already have it, then maybe its not the best solution, its just a bit faster to work with, gives a UI to browse files, copy them, renam them, extract compressed files, check sizes of directories and more. So it can help replace the DOS4GW file with a DOS32A file renamed to DOS4GW and the extension it has, I think its an exe file. This way you wont have to change how Duke3D is run, as it will be using DOS32A.
I see, what if I simply change the stub extender for the command prompt to dos32a? I've done it before with the original Duke3D and it permanently fixed a problem from way back.

I think changing the stub extender is permanent though. Before using this nuclear method I'd like to at least launch it in dos32a via command line launch method. It's the one where you type in cd games, the path, then dos32a. The only thing is, I attempted to guess the path but couldn't get it to launch as explained above. By any chance would you know the path to type in above dos32a duke3d.exe

Although Atomic Edition is the expansion I know for a fact the base game uses duke3d.exe after my trials. So if I can find out what the address line is I'll have it running in 32a

Btw I found out that not only does Atomic Edition run slow unless you install it each time you power on the Mister, it has come to my attention this version also suffers from horrendous crashes. Playing in dos32a WILL fix that (I have no evidence for this; just a high degree of confidence), the thing I can't tell you for sure is whether it will stop the slowdowns. It COULD in theory since some games in dos32a run faster is what I heard.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by thera34 »

As Caldor also suggested, better use a file manager for ms-dos :Dos Navigator, Norton Commander etc. I use Dos Navigator to simplify file access
Just get either one, and copy them in some of the folders from IDE 0-1 Top 300 Dos Games (I have mine in E:\Utils). If neither of these file managers are ok to you, just use dosshell. It is as well present on the large vhd in the Utils folder

However:
After hitting ESC and dropping to MSDOS prompt:
cd games\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d
dos32a duke3d

The game is in that folder : E:\ames\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d
It will require also the CD to be loaded on IDE 1-0 (file can be found on cd\Duke3DAt\atomic15.cue)

If you still encounter issues, try to work your way through folders msdos style (dir, cd commands are the ones you need most)

Have fun!
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

thera34 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:35 pm As Caldor also suggested, better use a file manager for ms-dos :Dos Navigator, Norton Commander etc. I use Dos Navigator to simplify file access
Just get either one, and copy them in some of the folders from IDE 0-1 Top 300 Dos Games (I have mine in E:\Utils). If neither of these file managers are ok to you, just use dosshell. It is as well present on the large vhd in the Utils folder

However:
After hitting ESC and dropping to MSDOS prompt:
cd games\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d
dos32a duke3d

The game is in that folder : E:\ames\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d
It will require also the CD to be loaded on IDE 1-0 (file can be found on cd\Duke3DAt\atomic15.cue)

If you still encounter issues, try to work your way through folders msdos style (dir, cd commands are the ones you need most)

Have fun!

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Funnily enough I typed in
cd games\dukenuka\duke3dat\duke3d
dos32a duke3d
Days ago and couldn't get it to work. Your second method did however force the game to boot into dos32a so thanks for that. Problem is even with this, Atomic Edition remains slower than a snail crossing the Brooklyn bridge with chewing gum stuck to it's belly!

Oh well, at least we tried. I'm starting to wonder hardcore if this is a core issue and nothing can be done until the core is updated. Looks like forcing the game to launch in dos32a stops any impending crashes but doesn't address slowdown issues.

It's a shame, I really like this game. Was in the process of sourcing the Megaton Edition anyway. Perhaps I'll have better luck with my actual rig. Thanks again guys!

Btw original Xbox version is cool and all, that thing feels fast as shit. Playing it on the Xbox controller feels clunky, don't know why but the Mister version makes me more comfortable using keyboard. 😄 It also looks better running on the Mister! Nothing like them lush colors! I'll try and locate an OG Xbox plug to USB extension and connect a keyboard to that at some point.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

Yes, it should be enough to change the stub extender I guess... this would be a way to avoid having to use a stub extender I think.

I did some tests with Duke 3D with and without DOS32A and with DOS32A the game can run for several hours, with DOS4GW the game often crashes within an hour or so. I think the problem is AO486 expects memory to be handled correctly, but DOS4GW often does not do so and cause memory leaks and such, and I think the Intel 486 CPU did things to correct some of the issues on a hardware level.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:54 am Yes, it should be enough to change the stub extender I guess... this would be a way to avoid having to use a stub extender I think.

I did some tests with Duke 3D with and without DOS32A and with DOS32A the game can run for several hours, with DOS4GW the game often crashes within an hour or so. I think the problem is AO486 expects memory to be handled correctly, but DOS4GW often does not do so and cause memory leaks and such, and I think the Intel 486 CPU did things to correct some of the issues on a hardware level.
It totally let me change the stub extender (not permanent, which is fine, at the moment just wanted a temp change) away stopped the crashes. Too bad the game suffers from slowdown no matter what I do.

If the core ever gets updated with this game in mind I'll be the first to download. I'm glad the original still works! Think I still prefer playing Duke3D on the Mister, the OG Xbox version runs too fast for me, so does Half-LifeX.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by jordi »

I think it would be much better to just compile eduke into the linux Mister has, like scumm... since this game could run natively on it.

retropie has it, so it should be not that different. I tried some time ago but I didn't know how to manage compilation dependencies.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

jordi wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:01 pm I think it would be much better to just compile eduke into the linux Mister has, like scumm... since this game could run natively on it.

retropie has it, so it should be not that different. I tried some time ago but I didn't know how to manage compilation dependencies.
That sounds a little over my head. A sound strategy though.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

Captain FPGA wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:16 am
Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:54 am Yes, it should be enough to change the stub extender I guess... this would be a way to avoid having to use a stub extender I think.

I did some tests with Duke 3D with and without DOS32A and with DOS32A the game can run for several hours, with DOS4GW the game often crashes within an hour or so. I think the problem is AO486 expects memory to be handled correctly, but DOS4GW often does not do so and cause memory leaks and such, and I think the Intel 486 CPU did things to correct some of the issues on a hardware level.
It totally let me change the stub extender (not permanent, which is fine, at the moment just wanted a temp change) away stopped the crashes. Too bad the game suffers from slowdown no matter what I do.

If the core ever gets updated with this game in mind I'll be the first to download. I'm glad the original still works! Think I still prefer playing Duke3D on the Mister, the OG Xbox version runs too fast for me, so does Half-LifeX.
Yeah, the slowdowns are there in all versions of the game. I had the game set to 640x480 at one point because it was the default setting or something. That cause pretty constant lag and slowdowns until I noticed the resolution was set so high. With 320 at least its only occasional slowdowns.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

jordi wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:01 pm I think it would be much better to just compile eduke into the linux Mister has, like scumm... since this game could run natively on it.

retropie has it, so it should be not that different. I tried some time ago but I didn't know how to manage compilation dependencies.
This could be nice, but for some its about the DOS experience, and in those cases I think people also run the ScummVM games in DOS under AO486.

But its a really nice option to have with EDuke, and I hope to see some hybrid options as well for the Amiga and AO486 core where the CPU might get emulated by the ARM CPU, and then we might that way get FPU and other advanced features otherwise not possible with just the FPGA.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Caldor wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:07 am
Captain FPGA wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:16 am
Caldor wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:54 am Yes, it should be enough to change the stub extender I guess... this would be a way to avoid having to use a stub extender I think.

I did some tests with Duke 3D with and without DOS32A and with DOS32A the game can run for several hours, with DOS4GW the game often crashes within an hour or so. I think the problem is AO486 expects memory to be handled correctly, but DOS4GW often does not do so and cause memory leaks and such, and I think the Intel 486 CPU did things to correct some of the issues on a hardware level.
It totally let me change the stub extender (not permanent, which is fine, at the moment just wanted a temp change) away stopped the crashes. Too bad the game suffers from slowdown no matter what I do.

If the core ever gets updated with this game in mind I'll be the first to download. I'm glad the original still works! Think I still prefer playing Duke3D on the Mister, the OG Xbox version runs too fast for me, so does Half-LifeX.
Yeah, the slowdowns are there in all versions of the game. I had the game set to 640x480 at one point because it was the default setting or something. That cause pretty constant lag and slowdowns until I noticed the resolution was set so high. With 320 at least its only occasional slowdowns.
You check your resolution in the settings dot bat right? The only one I kept seeing it set to was 320x200. There another way to check this that I don't know about?

I'm assuming you're saying Atomic Edition runs fine on yours with occasional slowdown but that's how the original Duke3D runs on mine. You think my game is being forced into 640x480? If that's the case what other avenues could I use to change it other than settings dot bat? What if I plug the mister sd into my computer, unmounted the vhd, nav to the Atomic Edition folder then manually change resolution in the target file?
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Update: I changed the sb stub extender so now it boots in dos32a.

Likewise I got around to tinkering with the resolution again and your right it does run okay in in 200p resolution. The thing is though I coulda sworn I checked the resolution several times before and it was set to 320x200!

I think I know what happened the options say that giving this illusion its reflecting a resolution that it isn't. In order to force it for sure I had to manually click on 320x200 even though its already highlighted when the damn thing boots.

The problem is I cannot get it to save. I'll try transferring the SD card to my pc so I can unmount and check the Duke.cfg file for Atomic Edition

EDIT: A SOLUTION!!!!!

Did it. @Caldor is right! The game does function at 320x200. I never doubted this per se, the only thing that confused me was the settings displaying 320x200 but then the game running like it's not. Even when I click that res in the option the save didn't lock.

Apparently the only way to lock-in the save is to actually unmount and edit all of the CFG files. Apparently the CFGs had it at 1024x768 once I changed to 320x200 it ran like cake.

Unironically the original Duke3D already has that 200 set with the exception of one of the CFGs (believe it was the network CFG) no wonder that game ran almost normal with crashes if left on for an hour. Anyway the crashes are a non-issue so long as you got dos32a in your back pocket. Nice to finally get this behind me.

I'm gonna do some stress tests with the 32a stub extender added. Let you guys know what I find. I suspect it will run for a while under this change.

Update: Stress tests went smoothly, ran it for 2 hours and no crashes.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by flynnsbit »

If someone wants to submit a change request to github for the Top 300 with these changes I can push it. add dos32a to the batch and change the cfg to use 320x200...
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

flynnsbit wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:31 pm If someone wants to submit a change request to github for the Top 300 with these changes I can push it. add dos32a to the batch and change the cfg to use 320x200...
I took it this far... I'll do it. I'm always downloading shit about time I did something productive for the larger community. :D Will submit between today and Monday.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Caldor »

I really should get around to trying the 300 game collection myself. When I do I will add some change requests as well.

I thought you were running in 320x200 and that the slowdowns you mentioned were the occasional ones that happens in some parts of some levels. But at 640x480 f.ex. the game does not run very well. With 320x200 an example of a slowdown is the sewers in... map 2 I think it is. The one where you blow up a building and then there is a sewer you can get into by exploding the cover or using a secret entrance in a toilet, and there is one of those flying aliens there. Not sure what causes the slowdown there, it might be that audio filter that is put on the sewer, the running water effect or the slopes... or because of the mix of it all. But AO486 is not too happy about that part of the game.

It happens later as well, but I for the part I played that sewer had the worst lag. Mostly it runs great though.
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Re: Duke3D Atomic Edition fix?

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

Boy was I in for it! I never knew github could be so intricate. I thought making a request simply meant "drop a comment to suggest changing the file" but apparently there's this whole process involved. Including a desktop app!

I really should be thanking you all. If it wasn't for you guys assisting me in getting this stubborn ass game to work properly on the Mister, I wouldn't have attempted a request or learned github! Btw when I say learned I only picked up on the bare minimum %20 of it. I still got a ways to go!

So I set up my own repo that includes only the CFG files and the original folder structure for the game. No executables AFAIK, no bat files or anything like that. Decided to keep it basic. Just unmount top 300 and navigate over to games. Drag and overwrite original folders with these babies! Should account for both directories.

Additionally, I THINK my pull request went through! I pushed the fork button. Hopefully I did it right! If I screwed up on something I'm sure I'll find out soon enough. Am fairly confident in the files on my repo though, spent a couple of hours vetting. Be sure to back-up original files before overwrite, just incase you want to go back to the old ones for whatever reason.

Link: https://github.com/WarDestroyer/AO486_F ... ister_FPGA

Caldor wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:24 am I really should get around to trying the 300 game collection myself. When I do I will add some change requests as well.

I thought you were running in 320x200 and that the slowdowns you mentioned were the occasional ones that happens in some parts of some levels. But at 640x480 f.ex. the game does not run very well. With 320x200 an example of a slowdown is the sewers in... map 2 I think it is. The one where you blow up a building and then there is a sewer you can get into by exploding the cover or using a secret entrance in a toilet, and there is one of those flying aliens there. Not sure what causes the slowdown there, it might be that audio filter that is put on the sewer, the running water effect or the slopes... or because of the mix of it all. But AO486 is not too happy about that part of the game.

It happens later as well, but I for the part I played that sewer had the worst lag. Mostly it runs great though.
Yeah, naw I haven't gotten very far in the game. Just to the part where you jump down the fan shaft and kill the first two aliens with the hidden gun on a ledge.

The original Duke3D I got much further, up to the girl on the big screen. I can gather some of what your talking about though, if you're talking about when Duke is swimming in the sewer that part is wayyyy too slow to for my taste. It's made barely playable.
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