AO486 Compatibility List

User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

Schyz wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:46 pmHey, I also found issues with Warcraft 2 just now (took time to reach the "W"). Didn't check much because it's a cracked version, so I'm not going to bother if the normal one works fine.

About Strife, disabling Level 1 or 2 cache runs fine (haven't tested much), lowering to 56MHz with both caches enabled gives you enough time to fight the first soldier, and lowering to 30MHz I had enough time to kill him before it crashes.

Not sure if it's a stability issue because we are pushing the FPGA too much, Sorgelig recommends to start at 30MHz with Level 2 cache disabled as there could be less stable DE10-nano boards.

EDIT: Warcraft 2 demo v1.08 works under Win95 OSR2. Strangely the cracked version I have doesn't, but after copying the "uvconfig.exe" from that version to the full game folder and running it from a command prompt window, the full version also works fine under Win95 OSR2.

EDIT2: Descent throws the same error, and it also works fine under Win95 OSR2.

EDIT3: Both Warcraft 2 and Descent work fine with DOS/32A.
Strife works without cache level 1 and 2? I got it running with 90mhz and full cache enabled... wont it be much slower if you disable those caches?

I use the DOS version from GOG for Strife. It is included as a ZIP file with the Strife game on GOG, so I just put that on my MiSTer VHD. Then I replaced the DOS4GW file with a DOS32A one that I renamed, to make it use that instead... or... I think this one is built into the exe, so it might require the DOS32A command to be used on a specific exe file. But then it should work without removing speed or cache from the core.

Its interesting that you got Descent working in Windows 95. Maybe it was a problem with my version of Descent, or maybe it was the version of Windows I was using at the time.
akeley
Top Contributor
Posts: 1303
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 pm
Has thanked: 416 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by akeley »

Caldor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:43 pm
akeley wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:58 pm You can just tick "run/does not run" box and put fps and glitch remarks in the notes. This way the "playable" subjectivity trap can be avoided and anybody can make their own mind up if it's worth trying a particular game.
That is what I want to avoid. All entries will end up being on the first page pretty much and there will be a need to use 2-3 extra columns to describe the state of each game. I do not see it as especially subjective to require a game to have at least a stable 10fps to be considered playable.
Your "10 fps" threshold is already subjective. For example, for me a game to be "playable" it needs to run at full speed (because it's 2020 and it's possible to achieve via emulation). For somebody else it might be 15 fps, or 20, etc, etc.

Ultimately it's your list and your call, I just wanted to point out the flaws I perceive in this approach. I'd be very much interested in a list which could help me save time and decide which games are worth playing, or what issues others have encountered. Simple "runs/doesn't run" or highly subjective "playable" are bit of an empty info for me.
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

akeley wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:05 am
Caldor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:43 pm
akeley wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:58 pm You can just tick "run/does not run" box and put fps and glitch remarks in the notes. This way the "playable" subjectivity trap can be avoided and anybody can make their own mind up if it's worth trying a particular game.
That is what I want to avoid. All entries will end up being on the first page pretty much and there will be a need to use 2-3 extra columns to describe the state of each game. I do not see it as especially subjective to require a game to have at least a stable 10fps to be considered playable.
Your "10 fps" threshold is already subjective. For example, for me a game to be "playable" it needs to run at full speed (because it's 2020 and it's possible to achieve via emulation). For somebody else it might be 15 fps, or 20, etc, etc.

Ultimately it's your list and your call, I just wanted to point out the flaws I perceive in this approach. I'd be very much interested in a list which could help me save time and decide which games are worth playing, or what issues others have encountered. Simple "runs/doesn't run" or highly subjective "playable" are bit of an empty info for me.
Of course its subjective... but its a measurable number which makes it something to go by. There are of course people who demand it to be 20fps or more f.ex, and that is understandable. But I mean playable in the rather literal sense. The point between impossible to play and less than optimal to play. Diablo is a good example because its not running great, but clearly its possible to actually complete the game.

Doing that with Duke Nukem 3D running VESA graphics, putting it at 5fps or lower, well, I doubt anyone would complete the game like that. But as the game is right now with its... should be 10-30 fps, but probably somewhere between 10-20 as its average, it is playable and completeable. Its the difference between making it annoying to aim, and the 5fps or lower being... near impossible to aim.

If it was only about the games being able to run at full speed... well we could have been doing that all along. Its not like the MiSTer really does much in terms of making it a better experience for any of these games... except that it gives us something to tinker with. Like using MIDI with it, connecting it to CRT monitors and such. Both are still possible with PCem and DOSBox, so its not really much of an arguement for the MiSTer either.

So I would argue its mainly about it being for the fun of doing it. People seem to mainly be wanting to have even games that run below 5fps on the main list, which I cannot see much reason to. It should be all definitions be considered unplayable in a not especially subjective way.

GTA for example... I had put it on the last page because I could not get it to run at all. Pretty sure it requires FPU or something... but then someone got the 8 bit version of it to run using DOS32A. So I put it to the second page. I guess it should still remain on both pages since this game has so many versions. 8bit, 16bit, 3DFX and Windows.
User avatar
Cebion
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 7:30 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Cebion »

GTA is a wonderful game to test speeds and different OS and Graphiccards =D
Schyz
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Schyz »

Caldor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:35 pm Strife works without cache level 1 and 2? I got it running with 90mhz and full cache enabled... wont it be much slower if you disable those caches?
Mine crashes, I thought you also had issues with Strife, I guess I'll try DOS/32A with Strife then.
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

Schyz wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:11 pm
Caldor wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:35 pm Strife works without cache level 1 and 2? I got it running with 90mhz and full cache enabled... wont it be much slower if you disable those caches?
Mine crashes, I thought you also had issues with Strife, I guess I'll try DOS/32A with Strife then.
I do have issues with it when I do not use DOS/32A to run it with. I might get into the game and such, and then when I start playing it might crash. But with DOS/32A it runs quite well. The intro video has some stuttering, but in game seems to run at full speed or close to it. I have not tried it on anything else, so its hard to tell if its supposed to run much faster than it does.
Emubastard
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 10:06 pm
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Emubastard »

Totally need a discord for getting these set up in invidial VHD's :)

I got Wing Command 3 working without issue.

Star Trek Judegment RIghts runs with CD emulator but sometimes the digital sound cuts out. Haven't found a fix for it. Still mostly playable.
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

When using Windows a few settings seem to be important for a more stable MiSTer setup.

Remove the floppy drive controller. Helps avoid some crashes when Windows tries to access the floppy drive in some way.
Find it under
settings -> system -> device management -> Locate the floppy controller and remove it.

Disable prefetch cache for CD and HDD drive. This is done under
settings -> system -> performance -> file system -> there should be a tab for CD and a tab for HDD if I remember correctly.

Disabling the prefetch for the CD drive made Diablo stop crashing when using Daemon Tools to mount the CD.
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

Did someone get Theme Park running? I am trying the CD version and the intro runs with music and soundfx, but the game wont load, unless I disable soundfx. Tried several different settings.

It has an option for both Sound Blaster and SBlaster Compatible. I tried both but no luck. I also tried with SB Pro and SB 16 and it runs with those, except still no sound because they are not the right card. I have tried with FreeDOS and DOS 7.1. Had some issues with my DOS 6.22 setup so have not tried it yet.
FPGAzumSpass
Core Developer
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 383 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by FPGAzumSpass »

Added:
- 1602 A.D.(unplayable)
- Age of Empires(unplayable)
- Broken Sword
- Command & Conquer
- EarthSiege2(unplayable)
- Grand Prix 2
- Grand Prix Manager 2
- Holiday Island
- MinerVGA
- Nascar
- Stunts
- Winpolis
pcfreak324
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by pcfreak324 »

Added: Hexen (1995) and Screamer (1995)

It might also be worth adding a column to state if a given game is compatible with DOS32A or not. DOS32A throws out warnings with many games, but when it works, it gives a small performance boost (1 FPS).
robng15
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by robng15 »

Caldor wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 pm Did someone get Theme Park running? I am trying the CD version and the intro runs with music and soundfx, but the game wont load, unless I disable soundfx. Tried several different settings.

It has an option for both Sound Blaster and SBlaster Compatible. I tried both but no luck. I also tried with SB Pro and SB 16 and it runs with those, except still no sound because they are not the right card. I have tried with FreeDOS and DOS 7.1. Had some issues with my DOS 6.22 setup so have not tried it yet.
I'll send you my config later!
robng15
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by robng15 »

For Theme Park... I ran the setup from the CD and then modified the files in C:\THEME.CD as follows:

SNDSETUP.INF

Code: Select all

SOUNDFX = SBLAST 220 5 1
MUSIC = SBLAST 330 9 0
THEME.BAT

Code: Select all

LH SHSUCDHD /F:C:\ISO\THEMPARK.ISO
LH SHSUCDX /D:SHSU-CDH
@D:
@cd D:\game 
:START
REM DOS32A INTRO.EXE -C:/THEME.CD
DOS32A MAIN.EXE -cD:/game/ -dC:/THEME.CD/ -l0
@IF ERRORLEVEL 10 GOTO START
@cd \
SHSUCDX /U
SHSUCDHD /U
@c:
I disabled the intro, and used DOS32A, as I had problems during the betas withe DOS4GW, but they might now be fixed, not tried.
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

I still have the issue. Tried DOS 6.22 as well. I am beginning to suspect maybe its my version of the game. I did create the image myself. Used your configuration and manually set the sound settings. Still no luck.

Might also be that there has begun being a problem with newer cores. I tried the two first release cores and the first one does get a black screen when launching and the second one, the one I started trying with, just freezes. I guess I should try the newest release just to see if that helps.
robng15
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by robng15 »

Caldor wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:27 pm I still have the issue. Tried DOS 6.22 as well. I am beginning to suspect maybe its my version of the game. I did create the image myself. Used your configuration and manually set the sound settings. Still no luck.

Might also be that there has begun being a problem with newer cores. I tried the two first release cores and the first one does get a black screen when launching and the second one, the one I started trying with, just freezes. I guess I should try the newest release just to see if that helps.
Just a quick thought, it fails with CMS enabled.
User avatar
Chris23235
Top Contributor
Posts: 841
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 8:45 pm
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Chris23235 »

Added workaround to get Joystick in Tie Fighter CD running
User avatar
Chris23235
Top Contributor
Posts: 841
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 8:45 pm
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Chris23235 »

Added Commanche, it runs surprisingly well.
Coldheat007
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:26 am

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Coldheat007 »

I have been loading over 200 games. Been just launching them for now. How could I contribute to this? What would be the requirements to consider something is working? In other words how long to test?
jamesfmackenzie
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 am

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by jamesfmackenzie »

FPGAzumSpass wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:24 am Added:
- 1602 A.D.(unplayable)
- Age of Empires(unplayable)
- Broken Sword
- Command & Conquer
- EarthSiege2(unplayable)
- Grand Prix 2
- Grand Prix Manager 2
- Holiday Island
- MinerVGA
- Nascar
- Stunts
- Winpolis
Anyone else able to get Command & Conquer working? I encountered the following issues with DOS 6.22:

1. Unable to install game - installer hangs at 0%. Same issue with SHSUCDHD and FakeDr. Worked around this issue by using PCEM to create a VHD with C&C pre-installed
2. Unable to start game - DOS/4GW crash with "Professional Error (2001)". Tried installing latest C&C patch (1.22), but still not working. No workaround

Interested to hear if others have this working and how
User avatar
Caldor
Top Contributor
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:20 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Caldor »

Coldheat007 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:31 am I have been loading over 200 games. Been just launching them for now. How could I contribute to this? What would be the requirements to consider something is working? In other words how long to test?
So far I have just gone into the game and tested if I could play it for a few minutes. The document is to be able for people to report if they find issues with games or ways to get them to run so that we can collaborate on them.

Its up to each person to consider what they consider playable, but I would prefer to consider it if a game is able to run at more than 5 frames per second. With less than that, I do not think people would actually try to even complete the first level / map / mission / chapter of that game.
jamesfmackenzie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:56 amAnyone else able to get Command & Conquer working? I encountered the following issues with DOS 6.22:

1. Unable to install game - installer hangs at 0%. Same issue with SHSUCDHD and FakeDr. Worked around this issue by using PCEM to create a VHD with C&C pre-installed
2. Unable to start game - DOS/4GW crash with "Professional Error (2001)". Tried installing latest C&C patch (1.22), but still not working. No workaround

Interested to hear if others have this working and how
I have not been able to get Command and Conquer to run so far.
User avatar
Chris23235
Top Contributor
Posts: 841
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 8:45 pm
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Chris23235 »

jamesfmackenzie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:56 am
Anyone else able to get Command & Conquer working? I encountered the following issues with DOS 6.22:

1. Unable to install game - installer hangs at 0%. Same issue with SHSUCDHD and FakeDr. Worked around this issue by using PCEM to create a VHD with C&C pre-installed
2. Unable to start game - DOS/4GW crash with "Professional Error (2001)". Tried installing latest C&C patch (1.22), but still not working. No workaround

Interested to hear if others have this working and how
Can't say anything about C&C, but in general: if you have problems getting a game installed, take a look at the Exodos version. They always include the install folder files along with a CD image. This way I managed to get Alien Troilogy running.
FPGAzumSpass
Core Developer
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 383 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by FPGAzumSpass »

I used a C&C rip found somewhere, ..., which was preinstalled and started it from within Win95.
I didn't want to make ISO from my old CDs and install again and try lot of things just to test it short.

Dos/4GW is known to have problems with the core, so either use Dos/32A or Windows to run these games.

Same e.g. with Warcraft 2.
jamesfmackenzie
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 am

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by jamesfmackenzie »

Chris23235 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:35 am
jamesfmackenzie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:56 am
Anyone else able to get Command & Conquer working? I encountered the following issues with DOS 6.22:

1. Unable to install game - installer hangs at 0%. Same issue with SHSUCDHD and FakeDr. Worked around this issue by using PCEM to create a VHD with C&C pre-installed
2. Unable to start game - DOS/4GW crash with "Professional Error (2001)". Tried installing latest C&C patch (1.22), but still not working. No workaround

Interested to hear if others have this working and how
Can't say anything about C&C, but in general: if you have problems getting a game installed, take a look at the Exodos version. They always include the install folder files along with a CD image. This way I managed to get Alien Troilogy running.
Good suggestion - I'll try the ExoDOS version
jamesfmackenzie
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 am

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by jamesfmackenzie »

FPGAzumSpass wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:49 am I used a C&C rip found somewhere, ..., which was preinstalled and started it from within Win95.
I didn't want to make ISO from my old CDs and install again and try lot of things just to test it short.

Dos/4GW is known to have problems with the core, so either use Dos/32A or Windows to run these games.

Same e.g. with Warcraft 2.
I tried DOS/32A but it didn't seem to work with either C&C.EXE or RUNGAME.EXE (which C&C.EXE seems to wrap). It could be my lack of knowledge with DOS/32A. Is it possible for a DOS/4GW executable to be "unpatchable" with DOS/32A?
jamesfmackenzie
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 am

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by jamesfmackenzie »

jamesfmackenzie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:09 pm
FPGAzumSpass wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:49 am I used a C&C rip found somewhere, ..., which was preinstalled and started it from within Win95.
I didn't want to make ISO from my old CDs and install again and try lot of things just to test it short.

Dos/4GW is known to have problems with the core, so either use Dos/32A or Windows to run these games.

Same e.g. with Warcraft 2.
I tried DOS/32A but it didn't seem to work with either C&C.EXE or RUNGAME.EXE (which C&C.EXE seems to wrap). It could be my lack of knowledge with DOS/32A. Is it possible for a DOS/4GW executable to be "unpatchable" with DOS/32A?
I was able to get this working in DOS by patching GAME.DAT for DOS/32A:

Code: Select all

sb /r GAME.DAT
Windows 95 also works fine. I used Daemon Tools to mount the CD
ZigZag
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:05 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by ZigZag »

jamesfmackenzie wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:09 pm
FPGAzumSpass wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:49 am I used a C&C rip found somewhere, ..., which was preinstalled and started it from within Win95.
I didn't want to make ISO from my old CDs and install again and try lot of things just to test it short.

Dos/4GW is known to have problems with the core, so either use Dos/32A or Windows to run these games.

Same e.g. with Warcraft 2.
I tried DOS/32A but it didn't seem to work with either C&C.EXE or RUNGAME.EXE (which C&C.EXE seems to wrap). It could be my lack of knowledge with DOS/32A. Is it possible for a DOS/4GW executable to be "unpatchable" with DOS/32A?
You can "unbind" the *.exe using the DOS tools that come with DOS/32A. If the DOS4GW file is separate from the game exe you can just rename dos32a to dos4gw & replace it (if I forget correct filename forgive me, it's been ages). The dos32a had a fairly simple document with it explaining usage, have a read. It's worth learning how to use it as there's so many games that it applies to.

If you're really stuck I'll have a look & see if I can create a quick usage guide but I need a refresher course myself! You could PM me the executable file & I'll see if I can "unbind" it but might have to wait a few days till I can use PC again (severe nerve pain is stopping me).
Freddo
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by Freddo »

I got C&C working but it was a bit odd. I don't know why exactly this works but rebind Game.dat using DOS32A (sb -r Game.dat) This will spit out a file named Game.exe. Rename that back to Game.dat and then launch the game using C&C.exe as usual.
rhester72
Top Contributor
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:31 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by rhester72 »

Someone reported Pinball Dreams 2 as compatible on the list - how? Neither it nor the original does anything more than black-screen for me when trying to launch a table.
User avatar
NightShadowPT
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 9:56 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by NightShadowPT »

rhester72 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:20 pm Someone reported Pinball Dreams 2 as compatible on the list - how? Neither it nor the original does anything more than black-screen for me when trying to launch a table.
I believe that was me...

PD2 is working fine for me (sound seems slightly off, but that's all).
PD2.jpg
PD2.jpg (1.04 MiB) Viewed 18026 times
rhester72
Top Contributor
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:31 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Re: AO486 Compatibility List

Unread post by rhester72 »

@NightShadowPT - Can you please share your OS (MS-DOS 6.22?), CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT from a working run? (I originally thought this was perhaps a refresh rate or resolution problem, but I forced down to 60Hz in MISTER.INI and the ao486 config and it didn't help.)
Post Reply