CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

rhester72
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CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by rhester72 »

I have a core from May of 2019 that won't even let you reset and came with no documentation at all, which doesn't appear to even be an officially-supported core. Anyone know anything more about it?
mario64
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by mario64 »

You have to become a Patreon of Roger Taylor to get the current CoCo 3 core (5/26/2020)
https://www.patreon.com/rogertaylor/posts
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kathleen
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by kathleen »

There is also the amazing Dragon32/64 core available from Roger without the need to become a Patreon.
You can also join the realcoco group on facebook where Roger answers always very kindly to the questions.
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ericgus09
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by ericgus09 »

I must have missed the post with the pandemic and all about the new unified group .. that explains why the group has been quiet.


I also think someone else talked about creating an opensource version of the CoCo3 .. I dont know where that is (or if it even got started) .. but it would be nice to have an "official" coco core .
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Cebion
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Cebion »

kathleen wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:57 am without the need to become a Patreon.
I don't know of any cores behind a paywall. What do you mean?
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Newsdee
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Newsdee »

Cebion wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:08 am I don't know of any cores behind a paywall. What do you mean?
There's a few devs that only make their cores available to their Patreon subscribers, or (more commonly) that post "beta" versions for Patreons before eventually releasing the core to everybody.
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Cebion
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Cebion »

Newsdee wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:45 am
Cebion wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:08 am I don't know of any cores behind a paywall. What do you mean?
There's a few devs that only make their cores available to their Patreon subscribers, or (more commonly) that post "beta" versions for Patreons before eventually releasing the core to everybody.
That's a big difference, "eventually" , they are ALL released for free. Not eventually, the devs could also not release them at all during the work in progress. In my opinion creators with closed source cores are much more of a problem.
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Chris23235
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Chris23235 »

Newsdee wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:45 am
Cebion wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:08 am I don't know of any cores behind a paywall. What do you mean?
There's a few devs that only make their cores available to their Patreon subscribers, or (more commonly) that post "beta" versions for Patreons before eventually releasing the core to everybody.
Not sure, why you write beta in quotes. It sound like the developers that post beta versions for their subscribers only are doing something shady and that these versions aren't real beta versions.

First of all, in all instances I know of these versions where beta and received a lot of work before becoming open source.

Second, it is the Patreon subscribers who are not only donating money to the develper, but also are doing the work of beta testing for the users who can enjoy the cores, when they become open source (it is nothing different from any other closed beta).

And last but not least, if you don't like closed source codes, just don't use them.
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Newsdee
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Newsdee »

Chris23235 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:17 pm Not sure, why you write beta in quotes. It sound like the developers that post beta versions for their subscribers only are doing something shady and that these versions aren't real beta versions.
You're reading too much into the quotes. I meant those beta builds are, effectively, behind a paywall.

There are also some closed source cores (like the Coco3). Strictly speaking nothing disallows devs to do that, but they won't be considered part of the MiSTer project since they cannot be maintained and upgraded with the rest of the central cores. I think that's fair enough.
rhester72
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by rhester72 »

Newsdee wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:21 pm
Chris23235 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:17 pm Not sure, why you write beta in quotes. It sound like the developers that post beta versions for their subscribers only are doing something shady and that these versions aren't real beta versions.
You're reading too much into the quotes. I meant those beta builds are, effectively, behind a paywall.

There are also some closed source cores (like the Coco3). Strictly speaking nothing disallows devs to do that, but they won't be considered part of the MiSTer project since they cannot be maintained and upgraded with the rest of the central cores. I think that's fair enough.
And from what I read, that's been a problem for this core, because it lagged over six months behind in even achieving _compatibility_ with 128MB SDRAM modules. It apparently still has basic joystick directional issues due to not keeping up with framework updates. In this case, it seems a matter of the developer just being stretched entirely too thin.
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by dshadoff »

From what I understand, this core descended from the CoCo3FPGA project's source, and the MiSTer-compatible core developer wasn't pleased with the licensing requirements of making it open source under MiSTer.

In truth, I'm not sure whether this was a decision or a legal requirement (or both) - as the license used by MiSTer may not be compatible with the license for CoCo3FPGA.

Either way, he seems not to be including any of the FPGA-side framework code (thus the problem with new hardware like 128MB SDRAM). He seems to be attempting to make it compatible with the HPS side of MiSTer framework (ie. it uses the published I/O APIs to communicate), reimplementing the FPGA side as required.

This whole scenario is less than ideal, but I've heard good things about its overall operation.


As a separate topic, I believe that alanswx has started work on a CoCo2 core which would become part of the MiSTer repository. CoCo3 has quite a bit different hardware from Coco2 (despite relative compatibility for many things), so I think it's a good thing to also have an actual CoCo2 core.
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by Higgy »

He posted today that he has been moving house and the equipment will be unboxed again soon.
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ericgus09
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by ericgus09 »

What I played with up to when he switched to a patron model worked pretty decently .. I am not a huge CoCo3 guy so I can't really speak to specifics but the various things I tried worked well .. and the UART stuff was working well (that was my primary interest, internet BBS'sing / telecom stuff) and that worked pretty acceptably ..
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kathleen
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by kathleen »

ericgus09 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:42 am What I played with up to when he switched to a patron model worked pretty decently .. I am not a huge CoCo3 guy so I can't really speak to specifics but the various things I tried worked well .. and the UART stuff was working well (that was my primary interest, internet BBS'sing / telecom stuff) and that worked pretty acceptably ..
Agree, the core works already pretty well. The only issue I had with this core in addition to the reboot, is that the audio in is not yet wired but this is into the todo list according to Roger.

The audio in is important for me in order to use the cartridge Audio Spectrum Analyser. I own it (the physical edition) and use it on my real coco, but I'd like to have it also working on the Mister. Another advantage will be to load real K7 of course.

The Dragon 32/64 core (which is closer to the Coco2 than the Coco3 is, has the same issue and should be solved in a next release.

I understood from Roger that he prefer to bring several corrections in one shot instead of one by one.

Being a big fan of the coco, I find that Roger is being doing a great job to bring this core alive.
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ericgus09
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by ericgus09 »

Yea I will say he is pretty dedicated .. its just too bad he and Alexy rubbed the wrong way off each other .. but thats not hard to imagine happening..

The CoCo series was a machine I always had "wanted" to play with back in the day but never really got the time/chance to do so .. so it was nice having the core on the mister to putz around with to see what it was all about other than the few odd times I would use a friends or friends of friends machine etc..
shodge
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by shodge »

I realize this is a old thread.

I am trying to understand the history here for a COCO3 port. I am in discussions with Gary Becker on porting his COCO3 design to MiSTer. I previously did the port to the DE2-115 board. Who is the owner of the port referenced earlier in this thread who had issue?

Gary's port is not of the Dragon - it is a true COCO3. Disk Basic runs presently through a serial port to a PC 'server'. Step 1 would be to get this re-hosted, then move to a local filesystem implementation on the MISTer.

Questions:
Will I be stepping on others working this already?

Is there interest?

-Stan Hodge
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by dshadoff »

I have worked with alanswx and others on the CoCo2 core for MiSTer - completely unrelated to CoCo3FPGA - and we hadn't even started on adding CoCo3 functionality to that core yet. As far as I'm concerned, these can be considered two separate machines, so you wouldn't be bothering me (and I don't think Alan either).

As for Roger Taylor's CoCo3 core for MiSTer mentioned above (which I think he has also changed the name of...), I have subsequently read online that he makes the statement that his code is not related to CoCo3FPGA, which means that it is not supposed to be related to CoCo3FPGA either. Since the code for this is not open-source, it is not verifiable, but I don't doubt it.

Are you (and, Gary) planning to make the code for the MiSTer port open and available ? The various versions that are around on the web aren't really available as source (except for one). It would be nice to have it in the MiSTer repository so that it can be kept up-to-date with framework upgrade and so on.
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Re: CoCo 3 core updates? Docs? Anything?

Unread post by shodge »

I have also been in discussions with alanswx. He is close to booting the same core. Yes [I will double confirm this with Gary but his source code is free now - its just a bit hard to find. I think between alanswx me we will get it working.

-Stan
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