TI-994a How-To

rhester72
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

Probably best to just get a full-rom E/A version with disk and speech support tbh
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

tmop wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:53 pm
- Display Master (Inscebots, 1986) from XB is not working: I/O error 26 also for this title. Please note that TI-Artist from Inscebots boot fine;

- Old Dark Caves 2 has the same I/O error 26 for me, also following your instructions: speech, mount disk first, etc.
If you can get me a copy or point me in the right direction for Display Master so I can test with it, I would greatly appreciate it.

In the mean while, can you test this version to see if the PAL version is anywhere near correct?
I don't have a VGA monitor so all I can test is over HDMI.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

Flandango wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:30 pm
tmop wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:53 pm
- Display Master (Inscebots, 1986) from XB is not working: I/O error 26 also for this title. Please note that TI-Artist from Inscebots boot fine;

- Old Dark Caves 2 has the same I/O error 26 for me, also following your instructions: speech, mount disk first, etc.
If you can get me a copy or point me in the right direction for Display Master so I can test with it, I would greatly appreciate it.

In the mean while, can you test this version to see if the PAL version is anywhere near correct?
I don't have a VGA monitor so all I can test is over HDMI.
ok, I've tested this new version and it seems that the PAL is now correct and no more stretched.

Unfortunately, it seems that the disk support is now broken in this build. The XB cannot boot anymore and also from EA you cannot load any file.
I've tested the same disks with your previous version and they are working fine.

Another thing that I've noticed is that the menu "CART TYPE MBX" is disappeared from the last official build. This also in your previous build.

In attachment a disk with a simple XB program (load with OLD DSK1.PALTEST) that should report if the machine is PAL or NTSC. Unfortunately it was not possible to test with your last build due to disk problem.

Waiting for a correct build to start the tests. :-)
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

Ok this is weird. Everything works on my end.
As for the Cart Type, the menu option was ignored from when I brought over the changes from the Mist core and only just recently removed it from the OSD to clean up a bit.
I just started reviewing the original Mist code and I don't see the logic of disabling it especially when MBX banking was implemented in the same commit.
I will look into re-implementing it and hopefully have something by this afternoon.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango MBX support would be great!
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

Flandango wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:51 pm Ok this is weird. Everything works on my end.
As for the Cart Type, the menu option was ignored from when I brought over the changes from the Mist core and only just recently removed it from the OSD to clean up a bit.
I just started reviewing the original Mist code and I don't see the logic of disabling it especially when MBX banking was implemented in the same commit.
I will look into re-implementing it and hopefully have something by this afternoon.
I've tested again, updating to last MiSter core and Menu and replacing also the TI99 core and now seems to load correctly the disks. Not sure what was wrong before with my setup.

I've run the PALTEST program and it's reporting PAL system for both NTSC and PAL menu. I've reset the core after switching from the two settings.
I've typed the PALTEST program on the last official core and it's reporting a PAL system! :o I was supposed it was a NTSC.

The code is reliable, since is from Mizapf, that is the official mantainer of TI99 core on MAME. Moreover, I've tested with "Indiana" a game in XB that is working correctly only on PAL machines and it's working fine when in NTSC (you can download Indiana from here: https://www.ti99iuc.it/web/index.php?pa ... MjRsvJxeUk Note that for the test you need to use the original XB version, not the compiled one that I patched to work on both).
So, more stuff for you to investigate. :)

Regarding the Standard/MBX cart menu I don't know if there is code associated to the MBX entry or is just a placeholder. This could be checked with @greyrogue that worked on the MiSTer version of the core.

In the meanwhile, I've recreated all the carts that need to use the disk and I'll recheck all of them before publishing a new pack for this core (I hope in very short time). Of course, I'll report eventual problems.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

rhester72 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:19 pm @Flandango MBX support would be great!
Well, you can already play MBX system games (except the Baseball game) on the TI99 core. However, the ROMs that work are not the "clean" dumps from original carts, due to the special bank scheme used on these carts, but some generated from hacked disk versions. So, this is the reason for the special MBX entry in the menu.
From a gamer perspective nothing changes using the original or hacked version of the game. ;)

Instead, I would like to have some extra hw supported, eg. SAMS (SuperAMS) memory expansion, the tape (although 99% of stuff can run from disk, except some MiniMemory games) and the F18A.

The F18A is an interesting hw in FPGA that replaces the VDP chip on TI99 (but also on Colecovision).
Here is an article with more details and the link on the author's site (https://www.eetimes.com/creating-the-f1 ... 9918a-vdp/#) and here some code/vhd files (https://github.com/CollectorVision/Phoenix-Colecovision).

Hoping that @Flandango is having fun with FPGA development and maybe could be interested in adding some more stuff... :)
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

Ok figured out what happened with the previous release and the broken disk system. I had updated to the latest framework and since there were some major changes to how sd card access works, it broke the disk system...mostly for the 2nd disk. Anyway, I found a version that works with the current disk system as it is and also allows the changes for the video system.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

Did we ever get to the bottom of why (mostly Atarisoft "MAME paged16k"-style cartridges) fail as part of a pyTIrom image but work when loaded separately? I've been looking at this with debuggers on various systems (MAME, Classic99, and to a limited degree ti99sim) and I just can't figure out for the life of me what's wrong. *Some* paged16k cartridges _do_ work normally, which completely blows my mind.

By the way, I've successfully converted the very latest MAME cartridge set (which is as fully validated as a set can be, given the lack of redumps and true physical evidence) and added a few missing items, so I'm pretty close to having an 'authoritative' pyTIrom cartridge set with disk and speech support. It's fascinating how many of the TOSEC and old rpk dumps were severely overdumped (and/or just flat-out wrong!).
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

rhester72 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm Did we ever get to the bottom of why (mostly Atarisoft "MAME paged16k"-style cartridges) fail as part of a pyTIrom image but work when loaded separately? I've been looking at this with debuggers on various systems (MAME, Classic99, and to a limited degree ti99sim) and I just can't figure out for the life of me what's wrong. *Some* paged16k cartridges _do_ work normally, which completely blows my mind.
I'm going to assume you used the C/G roms from Mame and createImage.py....
If so, did you include the -s option on the command line and verify the final image is 288k?

For example, this is what I used for DigDug and it worked.

Code: Select all

createImage.py -v --Crom digdugc.bin --Drom digdugd.bin -s DigDug.bin
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

Dig Dug is one of the few that works.

Ones that don't unless hand-loaded (incomplete list, testing as I go): Computer War, Jumpy, Jungle Hunt
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

Having analyzed all the MAME dumps, I've arrived at the following:

paged16k titles that only work if hand-loaded:

Computer War
Jumpy
Jungle Hunt
Ms. Pac-Man
Pac-Man
Picnic Paranoia
Protector II
Robotron:2084
Shamus
Super Storm

paged16k titles that work via pyTIrom:

Alligator Mix (also uses GROMs)
Barrage
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
E.T. [PHM 3125] (also uses GROMs)
Junkman Junior
Micro Pinball 2
Micro Tennis
Milliken Math Sequences - Measurement Formulas (also uses GROMs)
Moon Patrol
Pole Position
Scholastic Spelling - Level 5 (also uses GROMs)
Scholastic Spelling - Level 6 (also uses GROMs)
Sorgan II
Star Runner
Strike Three!
Tennis
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

rhester72 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:52 pm Having analyzed all the MAME dumps, I've arrived at the following:

paged16k titles that only work if hand-loaded:

Computer War
Jumpy
Jungle Hunt
Ms. Pac-Man
Pac-Man
Picnic Paranoia
Protector II
Robotron:2084
Shamus
Super Storm

paged16k titles that work via pyTIrom:

Alligator Mix (also uses GROMs)
Barrage
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
E.T. [PHM 3125] (also uses GROMs)
Junkman Junior
Micro Pinball 2
Micro Tennis
Milliken Math Sequences - Measurement Formulas (also uses GROMs)
Moon Patrol
Pole Position
Scholastic Spelling - Level 5 (also uses GROMs)
Scholastic Spelling - Level 6 (also uses GROMs)
Sorgan II
Star Runner
Strike Three!
Tennis
If you download my megapack (https://www.ti99iuc.it/web/index.php?pa ... Movp_JxeUk) and remove all the roms that are not a single file and all those with the TI99 BIOS included (with "FULL ROM" suffix") you'll get all the ones that work only if loaded as separate part.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

One note: Mancala, Return to Pirate's Island and Tutankham must be loaded with the following sequence:

1) Load System ROM;
2) Load .C file using C Load Menu;
3) Load .G file using G Load Menu;
4) Load .C file using D Load Menu;
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by GreyRogue »

tmop wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:21 pm Regarding the Standard/MBX cart menu I don't know if there is code associated to the MBX entry or is just a placeholder. This could be checked with @greyrogue that worked on the MiSTer version of the core.
I found conflicting info on MBX carts when working on it. Currently, it treats 0x6C00-0x6FFF as RAM if the MBX OSD option is selected. I don't know if that's accurate/sufficient for MBX support.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TI-99_4 ... a.vhd#L651
rhester72 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm Did we ever get to the bottom of why (mostly Atarisoft "MAME paged16k"-style cartridges) fail as part of a pyTIrom image but work when loaded separately? I've been looking at this with debuggers on various systems (MAME, Classic99, and to a limited degree ti99sim) and I just can't figure out for the life of me what's wrong. *Some* paged16k cartridges _do_ work normally, which completely blows my mind.
It looks like that python script is not correctly mirroring the ROM space.
Note that some games require mirroring across the ROM region.
If you only have 1 64KB C file, it should occupy the entire range.
If you only have 1 8KB C file, there should be 8 copies of it occupying the entire range.
If you have 1 8KB C file, and 1 8KB D file, there should be 4 interleaved copies of each (C,D,C,D,C,D,C,D) covering the 64KB range.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TI-99_4 ... om.cmd#L37
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/TI-99_4 ... a.vhd#L442
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

tmop wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:12 pmIf you download my megapack (https://www.ti99iuc.it/web/index.php?pa ... Movp_JxeUk) and remove all the roms that are not a single file and all those with the TI99 BIOS included (with "FULL ROM" suffix") you'll get all the ones that work only if loaded as separate part.
What I'm really trying to get at is the why. Clearly all the ones affected have something in common - C and D ROMs. But not _every_ title that has C and D is affected, which is a bit odd. What distinguishes the members of that group in particular between those that work and those that require manual loading? If we can answer that, we've defined where the problem is (and likely how to fix it). This is an analytics problem - I've got it this far, but I can't determine why (for example) Donkey Kong is OK but Pac-Man isn't. That's critical and what I'm hoping we can collectively come to understand.

Rodney
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

GreyRogue wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:27 pm It looks like that python script is not correctly mirroring the ROM space.
Note that some games require mirroring across the ROM region.
If you only have 1 64KB C file, it should occupy the entire range.
If you only have 1 8KB C file, there should be 8 copies of it occupying the entire range.
If you have 1 8KB C file, and 1 8KB D file, there should be 4 interleaved copies of each (C,D,C,D,C,D,C,D) covering the 64KB range.
That last line is probably it. Investigating - and thank you!

Rodney
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@GreyRogue - if CROM is 4K, do I do it 16 times or do I do CROM+4K nulls 8 times? (i.e. are CROMs padded to 8K boundaries?)
SELF ANSWERING: Neither. CROMs are never really 4K.

What I'm REALLY asking about: The Extended BASIC CROM is 4K, but the DROM is 8K. How is it patterned throughout the 64K?
SELF ANSWERING: Bizarrely, at least if you're using the current MAME cartridge list ROMs.

Basically, the lower 4K of the 8K DROM gets appended to the 4K CROM, and the lower 4K of the CROM overwrites the lower 4K of the DROM, resulting in 8K CROM and DROM. Said another way, imagine cloning the CROM into two copies A and B and breaking the DROM in half. The first half of DROM is appended to copy A, the second half is appended to copy B.

Pictorally:

Code: Select all

Original CROM		Original DROM
4K A			4K B
4K [null]		4K C

Resulting CROM		Resulting DROM
4K A			4K A
4K B			4K C
These are, as GreyRogue indicated, then interleaved, so the entire 64K ROM space looks like:

8K CROM+8K DROM+8K CROM+8K DROM+8K CROM+8K DROM+8K CROM+8K DROM

Finally, simple case of nothing but a single 8K CROM...duplicate it 8 times for 64K in the ROM area (0000-FFFF), right? If I do that, titles that used to work (with 0000-1FFF being CROM and 2000-FFFF being nulls), like Miniwriter II and Munch Man II, now hang on start. OK, kids...if you're doing testing with MBX, turn it off when you're done. :P

All that remains now is to solve the mysteries of Mancala/Return to Pirate's Isle/TI CALC, but I shall save those for another day, as my brain hurts. LOL
MORE SELF-ANSWERING: Nothing to see here - if you interleave correctly (mirror CROMs 8x8K banks), at least the first two work perfectly!
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango Your guess on MBX support worked on all known original images! The NTSC support/aspect is also now spot on - thank you SO much!
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

tmop wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:07 pm One note: Mancala, Return to Pirate's Island and Tutankham must be loaded with the following sequence:

1) Load System ROM;
2) Load .C file using C Load Menu;
3) Load .G file using G Load Menu;
4) Load .C file using D Load Menu;
Answered here:
GreyRogue wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:27 pm If you only have 1 64KB C file, it should occupy the entire range.
If you do this, they work fine loaded as full ROMs. Your step 4 loads C into the odd 8K ROM slots, which is the piece of missing magic from pyTIrom.

Once I've worked out a couple things that irk me a bit about my Linux bash script to convert the MAME software list ROMs, I'll share so you can see the logic (if you can read bashisms - if not, I've done my best to explain Extended BASIC which was the only trying one for me, which hopefully combined with GreyRogue's information will explain everything).
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

TI-CALC [PHM 3213] doesn't seem to work because of a port issue. See this from the MAME source (in src/devices/bus/ti99/gromport/cartridges.cpp):

Code: Select all

/*****************************************************************************
  Cartridge type: paged7
    GROM: up to 5 GROMs (sockets for a maximum of 3 GROMs, but may be stacked)
    ROM: up to 16 KiB (in up to 2 banks of 8KiB each)
    ROM mapper: 7000, 7002, 7004, 7006

    GROM space
    6000     77ff   8000     97ff   a000     b7ff   c000     d7ff   e000     f7ff
    |== GROM3 ==|...|== GROM4 ==|...|== GROM5 ==|...|== GROM6 ==|...|== GROM7 ==|

    ROM space
    6000                    7000                 7fff
    |                        |                     |
    |                        |===== ROM bank 0 ====|       write to 7000
    |                        |                     |
    |=== ROM bank 0 =========|===== ROM bank 1 ====|       write to 7002
                             |                     |
                             |===== ROM bank 2 ====|       write to 7004
                             |                     |
                             |===== ROM bank 3 ====|       write to 7006

    This is very similar to the MBX scheme, only that the bank switch is
    done by writing to the first words of the 7000 space. Also, there is no
    additional RAM.

******************************************************************************/
I assume this would require support in the RBF itself in the form of another Cart Type?
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by akeley »

About the display on my consumer CRT TV set (via Direct Video).
-ver 210607 - PAL didn't reall work/ was buggy, filled the entire screen. NTSC was fine, filled the entire screen
-ver 210615 - PAL seems to work fine, tested on few games. It's really squashed vertically now, sort of like MSX display. NTSC is still fine, but now there are also are slight black bars on top and bottom.

OF course PAl being squished is normal, I was just wondering if it was really that much on a real machine. Also, how about NTSC? Did it fill the entire screen or are these bars normal?

Can post pics if need be.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

Unfortunately I don't have a CRT to test on but if you can post the pictures maybe I can figure something out.

As for TiCalc...Try this version attached below...
I can't get Old Dark Caves 2 to work right but I can sure as heck get TiCalc to work.

If using Mame roms, use phm3213_g3.bin as the Grom rom (G.bin) and combine phm3213_r1.bin and phm3213_r2.bin for C.bin
Dos Command:

Code: Select all

copy /B phm3213_r1.bin + /B phm3213_r2.bin phm3213C.bin
Select Paged7 as the cartridge type... Don't know any other cart that uses Paged7 banking scheme other than tiCalc.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango

Good news - yep, Paged7 works (and TI-CALC is indeed the only cartridge I'm aware of that uses it), thank you!

Bad news - looks like there's some sort of regression (probably not from this build, but before it - not sure how far back), in that if you swap disks in a session, the second disk looks a little...off. For example, some reads get corrupted. I can supply a super specific test case if it's not immediately obvious what's going on.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by Flandango »

rhester72 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:15 pm I can supply a super specific test case if it's not immediately obvious what's going on.
If you can I would appreciate it.
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango, ignore - I could have *sworn* I'd tested this case at least twice before, but it now reproduces on all versions of the core, suggesting pretty strongly it's not a regression (or likely even a core problem). More stuff for me to chase down, sorry about that!

Some other quick questions, if I may...sorry for coming off as the 'ungrateful feature-requesting user' (I've been on the other side of that fence MANY times), feel free to tell me to jump in a lake. Even better, tell me how/where to donate - what you've done for us already is WELL worth reward!

The easy ones (I think):

- Should the 99/4 system ROM/GROMs work? I thought they would, but it just hangs... (V2.2 works as expected, though, including lockout <G>)
- Any chance of being able to switch the 32K expansion on and off? It'd be especially helpful in tracking down GROMulated RAM-loading cartridges (without requiring being competent to disassemble TMS9900)

and the progressively less-easy wish-list ones that every developer dreads:

- How hard would it be to implement true mini-memory support, with the appropriate memory range loaded/saved automatically a la SRAM in other cores (where the contents are checked/dumped upon entry of the MiSTer menu)?
- Cassette (in pass-through WAV format, because HUGE nostalgia waves for that cassette sound!) read support (with media stop/play/rewind/ffwd controls)? Shoot, let's swing for the fences...write support? <G> (While the amount of cassette-only software is small, it does exist.)
- Any hope of expansion ROM (e.g. Arcturus) or huge ROM (Don't Mess With Texas demo, Dragon's Lair) support?
- p-code expansion card? LOL (Guessing this is super-unlikely, because as a kid it always seemed hyper-complex...but who knows, maybe it's just another mega-DSR in sheep's clothing?) I may be one of the only dozen people on earth that actually knows how to use one... *laughs*
- Other storage? (Myarc HFDC with IDE support comes to mind as a personal favorite, but there are other choices like CF...)

Ironically, I personally have little to no interest in higher-end VDP, Geneve, etc. - I was (and am) a bit of a purist when it comes to TI, for better or worse. If anything, I'd love to get some conversation started on the above and more...you've reignited my interest in the 99 more than anything that's ever come before, because it *genuinely* feels like the real thing! Thanks to EVERYONE who has contributed!

(And to everyone else, no, I haven't forgot to send up my fullROM set. I needed to test TI-CALC and have a few more small things to iron out, but it's coming very soon!)
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

Flandango wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:45 pm
rhester72 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:15 pm I can supply a super specific test case if it's not immediately obvious what's going on.
If you can I would appreciate it.
Well, I'll be damned. There is some sort of defect, but it's been present since your first build. It'll take me a bit to (re)create the test case so you know what to expect. Sorry for the confusion!
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango:

OK, steps to reproduce the problem that appears to be specific to disk swapping (only drive 1 tested), using the contents of the attachment cutthroats.zip:

1) Insert the Extended Basic ROM
2) Insert disk1.dsk into drive 1
3) Start Extended Basic and the disk will automatically boot (this takes a while)
4) When you see "Insert game disk 2 and strike any key", insert disk2.dsk into drive 1 (effectively swapping the disk - NOTE: I think it's this disk swap that triggers the bug) and press Enter
5) At the three --MORE-- prompts, press the spacebar and you will come to a ">" prompt
6) Type "$verify" (without quotes) at the prompt and press Enter
7) "When you see "Insert game disk 1 and strike any key", insert disk1.dsk into drive 1 (effectively swapping the disk) and press Enter (note that this stage _appears_ to pass without error, which I believe is validating the GAME1 file on disk 1)
8) "When you see "Insert game disk 2 and strike any key", insert disk2.dsk into drive 1 (effectively swapping the disk) and press Enter (and this stage will take a while before it errors out)

You will observe the following error:

What you _should_ see is "Yup. Game correct." (per this screenshot from Classic99):
screenshot_ok.png
screenshot_ok.png (1.85 KiB) Viewed 8756 times
The error produced on the MiSTer core (faked screenshot from Classic99 identical to MiSTer output):
screenshot_err.png
screenshot_err.png (5.77 KiB) Viewed 8756 times
The reason I suspect it's related to disk swapping, specifically, is that if you take FIAD dumps of all the files from both disks (LOAD, LOAD1, BOOT, BOOT1, GAME1, and GAME2) and put them on an empty DSSD V9T9 disk image and use it instead (and just press Enter every time it asks you to swap disks), the verify works on the MiSTer core. I've now attached a DSSD of that very thing for comparison.
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cutthroats.zip
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tmop
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by tmop »

As promised, I've updated my TI99 MegaPack for MiSTer to support the new enhancement from @Flandango (disk support and Paged7 ROMs).

I've also inluded the last homebrews published in 2020/2021 (Escape North Korea, Dodger, Phenix, etc.) and the various disks for Adventure, TOD, Multiplan, etc.

Have fun! :D

Download from:
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/31265 ... nt=4847007
rhester72
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Re: TI-994a How-To

Unread post by rhester72 »

@Flandango - if it helps, Deadline's even worse (and therefore perhaps better for troubleshooting) - it breaks on game start with the same disk read error, no verification process required. If it boots without errors (all the way through game start after disk 2), you've fixed whatever's wrong. =)
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deadline.zip
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