Paprium cartridge

Atohmdiy
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Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Atohmdiy »

Hello,
I cannot say i cared a lot for this game, i didn't fund it but over time all around it became very funny :lol:

Now it's out and what i saw in recent video seems pretty interesting. So out of curiosity i open a discussion around it.

From what i understand the game use a special chip for audio and probably for other thing, so to make it work under mister it will be more complex than just dump the rom and start it in mister menu. This chip need to be implemented in the fpga side, or the we need to use some kind of cartridge reader.

There is a reddit that talk about the last option, and it suppose to be impossible because of the limitation of the de-10 and it's limited number of io.

What do you think ?
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by deepthaw »

I don't think we'll ever see it in FPGA. People are having trouble even getting it to work on their original hardware.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by bootsector »

It will eventually be supported by software emulators and also MiSTer. It's just a matter of time now. First step should be figuring out the DRM/bank switching mechanism in other to get the full sequential ROM data and not mirrored data as one used to get when trying to dump Pier Solar without playing with the DRM/bank switching bits. Implementing a "quirk" on the emulator/MiSTer would be the second step in order to get the barebones ROM played, probably with messed out audio. Finally, additional logic implemented by the cartridge's embedded FPGA chip (the "DATENMEISTER") would need to be "ported" to the emulators/MiSTer in order to get proper audio then.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by aberu »

deepthaw wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:19 pm I don't think we'll ever see it in FPGA. People are having trouble even getting it to work on their original hardware.
To be fair there are homebrew games on the NES and other cores I bet that have problems on some revisions of original hardware but work on the MiSTer. I vaguely recall a few. I think the harder part would be if it uses some kind of special coprocessor and whether devs think that is worth implementing into the Genesis core or not.
birdybro~
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by deepthaw »

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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by ash2fpga »

Atohmdiy
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Atohmdiy »

Funny indeed to use a 180 mhz chip with a mega drive and it's 68000 at 7.6mhz :D

If this chip is arm, could it be possible to directly emulate it with the arm processors in the cyclone V ?
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by ExCyber »

Atohmdiy wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:54 pmIf this chip is arm, could it be possible to directly emulate it with the arm processors in the cyclone V ?
That's an appealing idea with a kernel of justification. Unfortunately, it's probably wishful thinking in practice. ARM isn't so much a single standard as it is a family of standards and cores. On the Cyclone V SoC side we have an "application processor" core, Cortex-A9. On the Paprium cartridge we have a "microcontroller" core, Cortex-M4. The compatibility between the two isn't nonexistent, but it's also not enough for compiled M4 code to run totally transparently on an A9 processor. It's a bit like trying to run DOS programs on a PC running Linux because they're both "x86". It can be done, but it's more development effort and runtime overhead than is immediately obvious.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by hostile »

bootsector wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:50 am It will eventually be supported by software emulators and also MiSTer. It's just a matter of time now. First step should be figuring out the DRM/bank switching mechanism in other to get the full sequential ROM data and not mirrored data as one used to get when trying to dump Pier Solar without playing with the DRM/bank switching bits. Implementing a "quirk" on the emulator/MiSTer would be the second step in order to get the barebones ROM played, probably with messed out audio. Finally, additional logic implemented by the cartridge's embedded FPGA chip (the "DATENMEISTER") would need to be "ported" to the emulators/MiSTer in order to get proper audio then.
You are correct, it is only a matter of time. The main chip has been dumped as part of Project Little Man. https://github.com/ArcadeHustle/WatermelonPapriumDump

The ROM is actively being disassembled now, and 2 of 4 chips on the Paprium PCB have been dumped. The STM32 being probably the more important one remaining. https://github.com/ArcadeHustle/Waterme ... mps/RT809H

Both strings, and palate data have been extracted and shared publicly at this point.
Image

For what it is worth, there is already a linux native stm32 emulator.
http://beckus.github.io/qemu_stm32/

Code: Select all

NX TERMINAL
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MODEM      :
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@88.88.88.88
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? WATERMELON GAMES, 2018-2020
PAPRIUM
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NÈ
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LOCATION:
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FUNICULUS
ROYALE A
-
DIFFICULTY:
SISSY!
EASY
HARD
VERY HARD
PAPRIUM!
POW
DEF
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PRESS ATO UNTHRONE!
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by bootsector »

@hostile, several commits in that repo from this user: https://github.com/MiSTerFPGA

From reading that profile, I assume that user is not related at all with the MiSTer project, right?
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Kitrinx »

bootsector wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:04 am @hostile, several commits in that repo from this user: https://github.com/MiSTerFPGA

From reading that profile, I assume that user is not related at all with the MiSTer project, right?
Correct, they have no association with the project, and in fact are trying to damage it. I think it would behoove anyone who comes across it to properly report them to github for harassment and impersonation.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by hostile »

Seems a bit off topic, but no one is trying to "damage" MiSTerFPGA GitHub presence. If you examine the account linked pretty sure it is simply asking for GPL compliance. Which you all could do with way less effort than acting offended.

The account was already reported, and restored and found to not be "impersonating" anyone. The original claim was that the "avatar" aka MiSTerKun was used without permission.

"the activity that was reported included creating an account impersonating another using an avatar without their knowledge, which we found to be in violation of our Acceptable Use Policies”

The avatar we used is listed here specifically for community use, an unofficial mascot for the MiSTer project.
https://github.com/baxysquare/mister_kun

MiSterKun unofficial mascot logo is not used ANYWHERE in the Mister-Devel repo
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel

Similarly you may want to be familiar with GitHub AUP, before making false claims about "impersonation".
"We generally allow parody and satire that is in line with our Acceptable Use Polices, and we consider context to be important in how information is received and understood; therefore, it may be appropriate to clarify your intentions via disclaimers or other means, as well as the source(s) of your information."
https://docs.github.com/en/github/site- ... harassment

Alternately you could simply share the buildroot files people repeatedly ask for. Claiming the account is there to "damage" you is pretty crass, when you are actually withholding GPL bits.

Please stay on topic with Paprium.
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Genesis ... issues/158
"This game uses an fpga and a microcontroller, neither of which are likely to be dump-able, and are required for the game to function. It will be a long time before the available resources are around, if ever." is much more useful commentary.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Spark_Tek »

I have to admit beyond the rarity I can't see why Paprium is such a draw. It's buggy and has modern commodity chips doing the work so it can make a graphically flashy game. I don't see the appeal.

Idk what's happening with GPL, but compliance shouldn't be controversial with anyone here. If they've got a point about it then fix it and even if you think they're an enemy... then they won't have that leg to stand on.

Normally I don't want anything lost to history, but if Paprium is never preserved? I can't even muster a shrug. Imho it's just another buggy bootleg filled with weird helper chips.

I'm really only here to cheer on progress because anything that makes Fonzie upset is great.
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Milspex »

this game is not worth the trouble. Having said that, I support the dumping of the game because of how many people got ripped off
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by Beeble »

You can have your oppinion about the whole Paprium desaster, and it was a burning trainwreck. Dismissing the game itself seems
weird, even more with the reasons mentioned? Bootleg? How so? And while it´s uncommon beside Virtua Racing, it doesn´t bother me at all.
I even think those SA-1 Patches for normal SNES games are great (Gradius for example).

I would love to own Paprium, but as it is, I could settle mith a MiSTer release :)
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Re: Paprium cartridge

Unread post by blacklistedcard »

I think it's cool to see those customizations in the cartridge. Shows that you can extend the existing older console abilities with todays hardware. The project was a disaster, but I stopped to look at what was done with the game. There are a lot of nice things that were accomplished.
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