Sega Saturn Core in Development

cathrynmataga
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:30 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by cathrynmataga »

Woah, did this guy build the CPU and the graphics chips both from scratch? Saturn has a pretty oddball CPU.
zakk4223
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 10:55 pm
Been thanked: 107 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by zakk4223 »

douglasamcintosh wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:48 pm When (if) this core is released will it accept CHD files like most of the other disc based consoles?
CHD and BIN/CUE support is implemented entirely within Main_MiSTer, so it's basically independent of the core. There's a bit of 'glue' in Main that's specific to each core (since they all have some quirks) but the majority of the heavy lifting is non-core specific.

Assuming this core is implemented like other CD based cores, if the initial release doesn't include CHD support I'll add it like I did for the current CD-based cores.
User avatar
jdeberhart
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:41 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by jdeberhart »

cathrynmataga wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm Woah, did this guy build the CPU and the graphics chips both from scratch? Saturn has a pretty oddball CPU.
All of the CPUs in the Saturn are normal CPUs: it uses a pair of Hitachi SH-2s, an SH-1, and a 68000. Maybe you're thinking about the VDPs? Most machines of this and previous generations used custom chips for the graphics, but the CPUs are all normal parts that are used in many other devices.
mic_
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 8:45 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by mic_ »

The SH family isn't all that common though - nothing like the M68k. So I could well imagine that srg wrote his own SH-1 and SH-2 implementations. Fortunately they have pretty small instruction sets, so as far as processors go, those should be pretty easy to implement. At least that's my experience from writing software emulators, though I don't know how well that carries over to FPGA development.
throAU
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:06 am
Has thanked: 229 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by throAU »

mic_ wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:10 am The SH family isn't all that common though - nothing like the M68k. So I could well imagine that srg wrote his own SH-1 and SH-2 implementations. Fortunately they have pretty small instruction sets, so as far as processors go, those should be pretty easy to implement. At least that's my experience from writing software emulators, though I don't know how well that carries over to FPGA development.
The SH-2 has an open source implementation now (J-Core) as Hitachi let the patents expire.

https://j-core.org/

The 68000 has already been done

The VDP1 and VDP2 would definitely need re-implementing from scratch
srg320
Core Developer
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 6:24 pm
Location: Ukraine
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by srg320 »

throAU wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:38 am
mic_ wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:10 am The SH family isn't all that common though - nothing like the M68k. So I could well imagine that srg wrote his own SH-1 and SH-2 implementations. Fortunately they have pretty small instruction sets, so as far as processors go, those should be pretty easy to implement. At least that's my experience from writing software emulators, though I don't know how well that carries over to FPGA development.
The SH-2 has an open source implementation now (J-Core) as Hitachi let the patents expire.

https://j-core.org/

The 68000 has already been done

The VDP1 and VDP2 would definitely need re-implementing from scratch
SH1/SH2 is not only a SuperH processor core, but also contains some peripheral modules.
Снимок.PNG
Снимок.PNG (33.08 KiB) Viewed 18777 times
J-Core does not match me because it has separate buses for instructions and data as well as the caches, also does not contain most of the peripheral modules.

For 68000 I use fx68k core of course.
Jeruro
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:24 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Jeruro »

Thanks for the info!
User avatar
Mr. Encyclopedia
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:52 am
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Contact:

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Mr. Encyclopedia »

The Cyclone V in the De10-Nano has 41,910 ALMS in 110k LEs, so according to srg's chart the SH1/SH2 chips seem to take up about one fourth of the FPGA capacity.

Also worth pointing out that the 32X and CPS-3 also use SH-2 processors so this hard work is paving the way for those cores in the future.
retro
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:19 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by retro »

Mr. Encyclopedia wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:57 pm Also worth pointing out that the 32X and CPS-3 also use SH-2 processors so this hard work is paving the way for those cores in the future.
Did not know that! :)

It would be great to see CPS3 reproduced in MiSTer
User avatar
madmax
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:32 am
Location: Miyazaki - Japan
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by madmax »

I hope we ll see SF3.3 CPS3 for the MiSTer.
PikWik
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 7:00 pm
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by PikWik »

i would also like to see CPS3 on the MiSTer
User avatar
Waifu4Life
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:30 am
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Waifu4Life »

It would be nice, but I would much prefer that other systems being prioritised since the Dreamcast got 5/6 of the CPS-3 games.
Neocaron
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:16 am
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Neocaron »

the_importer wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:43 pm It would be nice, but I would much prefer that other systems being prioritised since the Dreamcast got 5/6 of the CPS-3 games.
It's not like there is anyway to port the Dreamcast on the Mister though :lol: ... Not in full FPGA way anyway.
User avatar
Waifu4Life
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:30 am
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Waifu4Life »

Neocaron wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:35 am
the_importer wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:43 pm It would be nice, but I would much prefer that other systems being prioritised since the Dreamcast got 5/6 of the CPS-3 games.
It's not like there is anyway to port the Dreamcast on the Mister though :lol: ... Not in full FPGA way anyway.
Doubt anyone in this community doesn't own a Dreamcast.
Kannibal
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:22 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Kannibal »

Would the Sega Saturn core be interchangeable with the Sega ST-V games?
[all assuming development goes as planned of course]
Neocaron
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:16 am
Has thanked: 187 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Neocaron »

the_importer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 am
Neocaron wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:35 am
the_importer wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:43 pm It would be nice, but I would much prefer that other systems being prioritised since the Dreamcast got 5/6 of the CPS-3 games.
It's not like there is anyway to port the Dreamcast on the Mister though :lol: ... Not in full FPGA way anyway.
Doubt anyone in this community doesn't own a Dreamcast.
I have a used one actually XD
Too much crazy taxi and soul calibur turned it into a very tired grandma. It goes back to the idea that hardware fails and dies. Especially that gen.
The idea behind FPGA is also to preserve forever the fonctional blueprint of a said hardware. At the same time it's probably close to imposible to create an FPGA implementation of the Dreamcast and up even with all the space in the world... at least in a time where it would make sense. Emulation is probably the only way to go from there.
User avatar
Waifu4Life
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:30 am
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Waifu4Life »

Neocaron wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:05 am
the_importer wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:40 am
Neocaron wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:35 am

It's not like there is anyway to port the Dreamcast on the Mister though :lol: ... Not in full FPGA way anyway.
Doubt anyone in this community doesn't own a Dreamcast.
I have a used one actually XD
Too much crazy taxi and soul calibur turned it into a very tired grandma. It goes back to the idea that hardware fails and dies. Especially that gen.
The idea behind FPGA is also to preserve forever the fonctional blueprint of a said hardware. At the same time it's probably close to imposible to create an FPGA implementation of the Dreamcast and up even with all the space in the world... at least in a time where it would make sense. Emulation is probably the only way to go from there.
There's more to the MiSTer in terms of FPGA to preserve game. An ODE does have FPGA in it and what do you know, the Dreamcast happens to have a few ODE's at its disposal including one that's been cloned the easily obtainable on Amazon.
ExCyber
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by ExCyber »

Kannibal wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:21 am Would the Sega Saturn core be interchangeable with the Sega ST-V games?
[all assuming development goes as planned of course]
ST-V has an extra I/O chip to handle the standard player/coin inputs rather than routing those through SMPC, so it's not just a matter of loading the right ROMs into a Saturn core. That being said, the chip in question seems pretty simple, so a developer could probably deal with it after higher-priority stuff is done. Some games have protection chips or custom controllers, which would complicate things.
ClassicGamerNL
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:16 am
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by ClassicGamerNL »

I going cry if this core comes available.. My Saturn games were stolen by the gameshop nedgame many years ago. The store owner promised to try and remove a few scratches that were bothering me. So I brought my games in and I never got them back. It included games like panzer dragoon, dragon force, shining Forge 3. The one I miss most is Story Of Thor 2. I never could find a affordable copy anymore. With this core I finally will be able to play them.
User avatar
Captain FPGA
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:19 pm
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

ClassicGamerNL wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:06 am I going cry if this core comes available.. My Saturn games were stolen by the gameshop nedgame many years ago. The store owner promised to try and remove a few scratches that were bothering me. So I brought my games in and I never got them back. It included games like panzer dragoon, dragon force, shining Forge 3. The one I miss most is Story Of Thor 2. I never could find a affordable copy anymore. With this core I finally will be able to play them.
Does this forum have an add button? I'd like to add this user as a friend and give him my support. That sounds horrible!

To the person who said do Dreamcast instead of CPS3, while I agree the Dreamcast would be fire! It's attitudes like this that would prevent us from seeing Red Earth come to the Mister. That would be a strong selling point to the whole Mister set-up to me, so would Saturn and Playstation.

Personally I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for Panasonic 3DO. After all it's the Real Interactive Multiplayer System
Dreams don't die!
Image
User avatar
pgimeno
Top Contributor
Posts: 669
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:44 am
Has thanked: 246 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by pgimeno »

Captain FPGA wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:39 am Does this forum have an add button? I'd like to add this user as a friend and give him my support. That sounds horrible!
Yes, in the User Control Panel, last tab.

Captain FPGA wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:39 am Personally I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for Panasonic 3DO.
+1
Tapper
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 am

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Tapper »

I am so happy to see a Saturn core being dev'd! I don't yet own a MiSTer but a good Saturn core would help push me to buy for sure.
sardine
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:41 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by sardine »

+1 for 3DO :)
User avatar
Captain FPGA
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:19 pm
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Captain FPGA »

sardine wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:07 pm+1 for 3DO :)
Shout out to Gex, Super Turbo, Sailor Moon, Crash N Burn.

The real interactive multiplayer system.
Dreams don't die!
Image
vibes
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:38 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by vibes »

NEW VIDEO (Nov 5, 2021)

(Warning: flickering lights)


Features four Saturn games.
jca
Top Contributor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 1:59 pm
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 454 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by jca »

:o :shock:
User avatar
LamerDeluxe
Top Contributor
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 798 times
Been thanked: 257 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by LamerDeluxe »

Fantastic progress! Really looking forward to trying this core.
User avatar
Mr. Encyclopedia
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:52 am
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Contact:

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Mr. Encyclopedia »

I asked srg on Patreon about the potential for a beta core release and he said it's not ready yet, and indicated his goal was to get it from dual SDRAM to single SDRAM before any public releases. Makes sense to me.
User avatar
Waifu4Life
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:30 am
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by Waifu4Life »

Mr. Encyclopedia wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:51 pm I asked srg on Patreon about the potential for a beta core release and he said it's not ready yet, and indicated his goal was to get it from dual SDRAM to single SDRAM before any public releases. Makes sense to me.
Let us pray to the FPGA gods that he can make it happen!
431Unknown
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:52 pm
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Sega Saturn Core in Development

Unread post by 431Unknown »

Another update video. Looking great!
Post Reply