PlayStation

Neocaron
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

max1602 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:29 pm Stoked, so looking forward,
do you guys think 32mb will be enough to run it?
No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by SegaSnatcher »

Neocaron wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:43 pm
max1602 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:29 pm Stoked, so looking forward,
do you guys think 32mb will be enough to run it?
No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
The dev board they are using only has 256MB of DDR3 ram with a 16-bit bus. The DE-10 Nano has 1GB of DDR3 with a 32 bit bus.
Neocaron
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

SegaSnatcher wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm
Neocaron wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:43 pm
max1602 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:29 pm Stoked, so looking forward,
do you guys think 32mb will be enough to run it?
No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
The dev board they are using only has 256MB of DDR3 ram with a 16-bit bus. The DE-10 Nano has 1GB of DDR3 with a 32 bit bus.
I didn't know it had less DDR3 ram. Do you think it will change th way they implement the audio on the Mister? I think the reason they wan't to use the SDRAM for audio is mainly because of latency problem on the DDR3.
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pgimeno
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by pgimeno »

The specs for the Cyclone V family say it supports up to 12 MB of memory in 10K blocks. Not sure how much of that the MiSTer framework uses, if anything, but hopefully there will be enough free to fit the ~3 MB that a PSX needs, right? Or am I talking nonsense?
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Newsdee »

pgimeno wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:44 am Cyclone V family[/url] say it supports up to 12 MB of memory in 10K blocks. Not sure how much of that the MiSTer framework uses,
That's hardcoded per chip version; the Cyclone V on the DE10 has 5570 kilobits (=696 kiloybtes).

In general, we have 3 memory banks available on the DE10: this embedded RAM, 32/128MB of SDRAM, and 512MB of DDR3 (half is reserved for the ARM side). For thing like CDs one can use the SD card (or external HDD) as storage.

Core authors make their cores fit the above memory model... Access speed of each memory type is critical to work out what is needed, but it's possible to come up with some tricks to pretend you have more memory banks of the same type. As long as the overall memory setup allows the core to fit timings, then it will be fine.
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pgimeno
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by pgimeno »

Newsdee wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:29 am That's hardcoded per chip version; the Cyclone V on the DE10 has 5570 kilobits (=696 kiloybtes).
Oh shoot, I tried googling for the specific amount of memory present in the DE10 Nano but was unsuccessful, and that was the only reference I found. Thanks for the info.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by max1602 »

SegaSnatcher wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm
Neocaron wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:43 pm
max1602 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:29 pm Stoked, so looking forward,
do you guys think 32mb will be enough to run it?
No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
The dev board they are using only has 256MB of DDR3 ram with a 16-bit bus. The DE-10 Nano has 1GB of DDR3 with a 32 bit bus.
Hm okay that seems nice then. I'll just wait and see. Enough games in my backlog w/o either saturn or psx :D
Less is not always more.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by max1602 »

SegaSnatcher wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm
Neocaron wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:43 pm
max1602 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:29 pm Stoked, so looking forward,
do you guys think 32mb will be enough to run it?
No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
The dev board they are using only has 256MB of DDR3 ram with a 16-bit bus. The DE-10 Nano has 1GB of DDR3 with a 32 bit bus.
Why are the arcade-cores like neogeo so dependent on extra few mb of sdram?
Less is not always more.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by aberu »

NeoGeo is more of a console core btw. Arcade cores use MRA's and load a rom individually by MRA, that's one of their major distinctions. The NeoGeo core just has the capability of running arcade games because the MVS and AES were extremely similar in terms of hardware.
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max1602
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by max1602 »

aberu wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:08 pm NeoGeo is more of a console core btw. Arcade cores use MRA's and load a rom individually by MRA, that's one of their major distinctions. The NeoGeo core just has the capability of running arcade games because the MVS and AES were extremely similar in terms of hardware.
Sorry but what does MRA mean?
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

max1602 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:04 pm
SegaSnatcher wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm
Neocaron wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:43 pm

No way in hell. :lol: You should get an SDRAM upgrade, it's pretty cheap currently.
On a second thought, since they plan to run the audio on the SDRAM maybe they won't use it for anything else and MAYBE it could run on 32mb, but I have my doubt. ^^
The dev board they are using only has 256MB of DDR3 ram with a 16-bit bus. The DE-10 Nano has 1GB of DDR3 with a 32 bit bus.
Why are the arcade-cores like neogeo so dependent on extra few mb of sdram?
Don't really know but I would speculate that 16/32-bit arcade games had much larger ROMs than we saw on contemporary home consoles. Most of the home consoles moved on to CDs pretty quick, and CD games are built around loading from slow media into a relatively small amount of fast RAM.
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aberu
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by aberu »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_System_11

This is a great example, there are many others. You are correct that the ROMs would be larger. I think the bigger issue is that the sound CPUs often differed, or on some of the variants they had different RAM.
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pgimeno
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by pgimeno »

max1602 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:37 pm Sorry but what does MRA mean?
MRA files are XML files with the core to use, a list of the ROMs, and more information. If you look under /_Arcade/ you'll probably see some of those. For example, here's the Galaxian MRA file: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Arcade- ... laxian.mra
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by max1602 »

pgimeno wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:36 pm
max1602 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:37 pm Sorry but what does MRA mean?
MRA files are XML files with the core to use, a list of the ROMs, and more information. If you look under /_Arcade/ you'll probably see some of those. For example, here's the Galaxian MRA file: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Arcade- ... laxian.mra
thanks that makes sense. its information for the core
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chanunnaki
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by chanunnaki »

I've been messing around with PSX emulation the past few days and one thing I've re-confirmed to myself is that OG PS1 graphics are really poor and makes for a very bad gaming experience.

I think the graphics need to be at least 2X internal resolution to be playable today on modern displays and if there was the option for Geometry Correction, that would be great too.

I'm excited for this core. PS1 is maybe the best console of all time. I have all my games ripped and ready to go.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

chanunnaki wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:57 pm I've been messing around with PSX emulation the past few days and one thing I've re-confirmed to myself is that OG PS1 graphics are really poor and makes for a very bad gaming experience.

I think the graphics need to be at least 2X internal resolution to be playable today on modern displays and if there was the option for Geometry Correction, that would be great too.

I'm excited for this core. PS1 is maybe the best console of all time. I have all my games ripped and ready to go.
I don't see any enhancement of the sort happening. If they manage to get full speed emulation it would be an achievement already. It would be pretty cool to have perspective correct but that wouldn't in the spirit of Mister, then again we do have hacks like with the A0486 which is more about making things run well than 100% accuracy. I guess the closer we get to the actual FPGA chip limit, the more hacks and hybrids tricks we will see for the sake of making everything run. Anyway, I would gladly take these as bonus features if it's even feasiable. :mrgreen:
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by retrodroid »

chanunnaki wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:57 pm I've been messing around with PSX emulation the past few days and one thing I've re-confirmed to myself is that OG PS1 graphics are really poor and makes for a very bad gaming experience.

I think the graphics need to be at least 2X internal resolution to be playable today on modern displays and if there was the option for Geometry Correction, that would be great too.

I'm excited for this core. PS1 is maybe the best console of all time. I have all my games ripped and ready to go.
It's amazing how "timeless" and beautiful 8-bit and especially 16-bit 2D graphics are in comparison to the early 3D consoles. For this reason my enthusiasm for a PS1 core is mostly centred on playing Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. :ugeek:
Jegriva
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Jegriva »

I like the lowpoly, low resolution, not filtered texture look a lot. I still remember the exact feeling of the zeitgest when everybody were looking at, for example, Tomb Raider 1 thinking it was the best graphic ever, while something like Metal Slug was "just 2d, go back to the Snes!".

Personally, this is my most wished core.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by aberu »

chanunnaki wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:57 pm I've been messing around with PSX emulation the past few days and one thing I've re-confirmed to myself is that OG PS1 graphics are really poor and makes for a very bad gaming experience.

I think the graphics need to be at least 2X internal resolution to be playable today on modern displays and if there was the option for Geometry Correction, that would be great too.

I'm excited for this core. PS1 is maybe the best console of all time. I have all my games ripped and ready to go.
Meh, you get used to it. I got an xstation for my ps1, bought a retrotink 2x pro and the HD Retrovision component cables, hooked it up to my display, and I fell in love with it again. After quite a few hours, the original graphics look fine to me.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Just need a nice blurry scanline filter. Or maybe something like the Genesis composite mode, in particular to deal with color dithering.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by aberu »

Force 256px + Bright Soft Scanlines filter basically gives me a composite crt look on the SNES core, would be similar with ps1 I guess.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Waifu4Life »

chanunnaki wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:57 pm I've been messing around with PSX emulation the past few days and one thing I've re-confirmed to myself is that OG PS1 graphics are really poor and makes for a very bad gaming experience.

I think the graphics need to be at least 2X internal resolution to be playable today on modern displays and if there was the option for Geometry Correction, that would be great too.

I'm excited for this core. PS1 is maybe the best console of all time. I have all my games ripped and ready to go.
Get a CRT 😋
Neocaron
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

If you want nice scanlines, you can use the OSSC with the Mister, it looks great and the scanlines are way deeper than the ones on Mister. I usually go with 50% horizontal and vertical, scaling is always perfect that way for the scanlines and it looks accurate to what I feel it should look like. On the OSSC you can use the vga input (with an hdmi to vga active adapter) or the scart input, both work great as long as your tv accepts the weird refresh rates of some of the cores. But for PS1 and Saturn it will not be a problem!
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by djsquare »

Neocaron wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:02 am If you want nice scanlines, you can use the OSSC with the Mister, it looks great and the scanlines are way deeper than the ones on Mister. I usually go with 50% horizontal and vertical, scaling is always perfect that way for the scanlines and it looks accurate to what I feel it should look like. On the OSSC you can use the vga input (with an hdmi to vga active adapter) or the scart input, both work great as long as your tv accepts the weird refresh rates of some of the cores. But for PS1 and Saturn it will not be a problem!
Holy crap you are correct. I never even thought about using the OSSC for the MiSTer I mean why would I it has HDMI already. The scanlines look absolutely amazing through the OSSC. I'm using it via RGB but I think I'lll try VGA later on today. I wish I didn't need the OSSC to make scanlines look this good on the MiSTer
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

djsquare wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:17 pm
Neocaron wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:02 am If you want nice scanlines, you can use the OSSC with the Mister, it looks great and the scanlines are way deeper than the ones on Mister. I usually go with 50% horizontal and vertical, scaling is always perfect that way for the scanlines and it looks accurate to what I feel it should look like. On the OSSC you can use the vga input (with an hdmi to vga active adapter) or the scart input, both work great as long as your tv accepts the weird refresh rates of some of the cores. But for PS1 and Saturn it will not be a problem!
Holy crap you are correct. I never even thought about using the OSSC for the MiSTer I mean why would I it has HDMI already. The scanlines look absolutely amazing through the OSSC. I'm using it via RGB but I think I'lll try VGA later on today. I wish I didn't need the OSSC to make scanlines look this good on the MiSTer
I usually reserve the VGA port on the OSSC to my home computer. I run it at 720p with 50% horizontal and vertical for the scanlines (the scanlines offset is at 50% as well to get proper white and highlights), using multiplication of course. For emulation it's great, for watching movies and getting this retro look it's great, but even on recent titles it can look quite amazing in combination to a nice AA and the performance gain running at 720p is huge I played Cyberpunk like this at a very high and 60fps :mrgreen: . It makes my 1080ti feels like a monster. I recently play FFVII with Satsuki mod using this set up is just mindblowingly good. The scanlines adds this little bit of "made up by your brain details" that you don't get when the texture is perfectly clean. It's a experience I would recommand greatly, especially if you have great black level on your TV. I usually run in game mod with the baclkight and contrast push to the max, no sharpness and I crank up the colors a bit.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Xbytez »

For those following development a few new updates:



Neocaron
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by Neocaron »

Based on the progress of the team, I think I'm not taking any risk saying we'll get a fully fonctional core by the end of the year. Unbelievable.
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by hiddenbyleaves »

WOW!!
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by MostroW »

this together with the Saturn, would make the system practically complete i'd say
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Re: PlayStation

Unread post by H6rdc0re »

Perhaps once there will be a Playstation core on the Mister. Something like PXGP support could be implemented for perspective correct texturing. That would be awesome and maybe even a turbo mode for locked and stable framerates. Can’t wait to see what you guys will bring.
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