Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

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HappehLemons
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Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by HappehLemons »

I was wondering how much of a source of truth the MiSTer wiki is, but I am noticing a lot of missing entries and pages:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... Cores-List

I'm noticing that CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 are not motioned at all on the Wiki.

Is the Wiki here not maintained as progress is made, and should not be considered a complete list of what's available on the MiSTer? I'm just a bit confused because I know these are supported cores, and taking a look at the Wiki seems it's complete so I'm not understanding why these aren't mentioned.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by FPGA64 »

Jotego doesnt keep his work in the Main Mister repository. He keeps it in his own GitHub.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by jca »

Not only that but he uses his own framework.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by N.Master »

Hi,
Why not including a "popular third party cores" to the wiki ?
I am quite new to the project, but i found it a bit confusing first time i searched for CPS cores.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by 0x15e »

Licensing, control, and philosophical disagreements between Jotego and the main devs.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by HappehLemons »

0x15e wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:03 pm Licensing, control, and philosophical disagreements between Jotego and the main devs.
As a wiki, I can’t see there being an issue simply calling out that these cores exist, no? I mean, you don’t need a license to say “This exists”. Disagreements sounds like a bad reason not present someone with information they’ll need.

Right now this wiki is the best place for any MiSTer information, and at this point apart from going onto the forums here / googling this there’s no trail within the MiSTer ecosystem that lays out their existence.

I feel like there should be an updated source that’s impartial to disagreements that lays out all compatibility.

Is there any other missing content here beyond Jotego’s? As this MiSTer community grows disagreements and such will continue to happen as more people develop cores for it, further disjointing documentation of the capabilities of the hardware.

FPGA64 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:30 am Jotego doesnt keep his work in the Main Mister repository. He keeps it in his own GitHub.
jca wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:02 pm Not only that but he uses his own framework.
I don’t see why this should have an effect on a “official” Wiki of the system from mentions the existence of cores on them that are arguably one of the most popular.

I see this easily becoming a snowball for lack of information & documentation moving forward.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by jimmystones »

Jotego's cores are separate for many valid reasons, including the fact that he maintains support for other devices than MiSTer (including the original MiST board).

There is however nothing stopping an interested party adding a page to the wiki and maintaining a list of 'unofficial' cores that are available :)
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by zakk4223 »

Keep in mind the update script (the "old" one, not the new downloader) parses the wiki page for valid core links. So if you're going to edit that be careful how you do it.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by C-R-T »

The wiki is not being maintained and is not up to date on pretty much anything. It’s practically just a source of disinformation at this point. It caused a lot of unnecessary confusion and frustration for me when I first got started on the Mister.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by Newsdee »

C-R-T wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:47 am The wiki is not being maintained and is not up to date on pretty much anything. It’s practically just a source of disinformation at this point. It caused a lot of unnecessary confusion and frustration for me when I first got started on the Mister.
What would you suggest to change?
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by vanfanel »

C-R-T wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:47 am The wiki is not being maintained and is not up to date on pretty much anything. It’s practically just a source of disinformation at this point. It caused a lot of unnecessary confusion and frustration for me when I first got started on the Mister.
But here's the thing: NOTHING prevents you from editing the Wiki and update it if you feel something is not right (for me it's perfectly OK, but if it's not for you, you can fix it!)
Do you BEGIN to understand what amount of work work is being done here for free? Source of disinformation? The hell are you talking about?
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by Hackshed_Carl »

I spent some time working on the wiki previously.
I do intend to continue but a secondment at work meant that I simply didn't have time.

I hope to be able to spend more time over the next few months on the wiki and make it more "user friendly"
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by 0x15e »

vanfanel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:19 am But here's the thing: NOTHING prevents you from editing the Wiki and update it if you feel something is not right (for me it's perfectly OK, but if it's not for you, you can fix it!)
Do you BEGIN to understand what amount of work work is being done here for free? Source of disinformation? The hell are you talking about?
"Get a better TV."

"Learn VHDL and do it yourself."

"It's open source, nothing's stopping you from making any changes you want."

"Just fix the wiki if you see something that's wrong."

"OMG RTFM."

None of this is helpful.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by dshadoff »

Those are exaggerations of what was actually said.

I guess there are some people who don't understand what an open-source project is, and how it compares to a commercial product.

So let me explain:

Commercial product:
1a) For a problem with a DOCUMENTED capability, you can call a PAID helpdesk employee (based on money coming from a profit margin) who may or may not be able to help. You can log a ticket. You may or may not ultimately be satisifed, as the answer may come back as "that is not a supported configuration", or "that will be addressed in an upcoming release" with no date attached.

1b) For an UNSUPPPORTED capability, you will receive the response "That is not supported, so we can't help you. But we appreciate your feedback and we might consider it in an upcoming release".

2) NEW FEATURES: Capabilities are fixed at the time of sale, very rarely are they added to. That is for another version of the product. If they decide that the numbers make sense for creating something like that. If the current product doesn't support your need, don't buy it. Or if you already did, you can suffer. Or if you're an uber-hacker, you can get yourself on Hackaday by reverse-engineering it.. but that's hard.

3) BUG FIXES: As a result of contacting the helpdesk, you may be instructed that: a) This is not a supported configuration, b) There is a known issue, try this workaround c) This is a new issue, and it is being investigated. Very rarely will you ever receive a date when it will get fixed, and it's not common to hear a definitive statement that it *will* indeed get fixed. Things are addressed in a priority sequence - but not necessarily YOUR priority.

Open-Source project:
1) For a problem with a DOCUMENTED capability, you can go to a forum where somebody who is NOT paid may take some time to answer your question. As there are a lot of questions and not a lot of people willing to contribute, this may not be suitable for all users. There is an expectation that if you have esoteric devices, that you know more about them than the person answering. The person asking for help and the person responding are EQUALS, so there is a mild expectation that somebody who receives assistance, if they want a better community, will contribute in return in some way (upate the Wiki, help another person, etc.)

1b) For an UNSUPPORTED capability, there is an expectation that if you want the esoteric device supported, you need to get involved, contirbuting specs, performing tests, understanding the theory of operation and adding code. All of these things are available to everybody, and a small number of people do contribute. Many more people decide that it isn't worth it, and give up. And some decide to gripe and grouse... and puzzle when negativity is met with negativity.

2) NEW FEATURES: Capabilities can be extended by anybody at any time, but not on any fixed schedule, as that is based on the developer's personal situation. Code is published so the process of "reverse engineering" is more like trying to understand the design motivations in the code that is sitting in front of you. You can also ask a developer, if you're serious.

3) BUG FIXES: After asking on the forum, if you haven't received a solution, you can log a GitHub issue. You may receive a response that: a) This is not a supported configuration, b) There is a known issue, try this workaround c) This is a new issue, and it is being investigated. You may not get a commitment of when it will be fixed. Things are addressed in a priority sequence - but not necessarily YOUR priority. But for cores with a small backlog, there is usually a motivated developer monitoring and looking into possible fixes. If it's not fast enough for you, the code is there, and a sufficiently motivated person can make a fix and submit a pull-request. Most are accepted.

For some reason, people seem to have an expectation that the open-source support experience is supposed to be "white glove" treatment, superior (or at least equal) to the PAID version above. Not sure why.


In general, the open source community is one of "the more you put in, the more you get back out of it".
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by lamarax »

↑ An insightful post, coinciding with today's... big announcements ;)
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by bazza_12 »

0x15e wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:42 pm
vanfanel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:19 am But here's the thing: NOTHING prevents you from editing the Wiki and update it if you feel something is not right (for me it's perfectly OK, but if it's not for you, you can fix it!)
Do you BEGIN to understand what amount of work work is being done here for free? Source of disinformation? The hell are you talking about?
"Get a better TV."

"Learn VHDL and do it yourself."

"It's open source, nothing's stopping you from making any changes you want."

"Just fix the wiki if you see something that's wrong."

"OMG RTFM."

None of this is helpful.
you don't need to learn VHDL to edit the wiki pages and correct or add extra information.. I don't know VHDL but have edited several *.MRA files like others have.. it's not that hard..
The music is reversible but time is not. Turn back. Turn back
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by darksakul »

0x15e wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:42 pm
"Get a better TV."

"Learn VHDL and do it yourself."

"It's open source, nothing's stopping you from making any changes you want."

"Just fix the wiki if you see something that's wrong."

"OMG RTFM."

None of this is helpful.
People offer you a means to help your self achieve your goals, and yet you say they aren't helpful.
People are literally giving you the keys and a direction to start and you decide to take offense.

I never before seen such a negative gut reaction to "if you want to know this, here go learn it" than some of the more entitled users of the MiSTer forums.

Complaining how some information resource is out of date about MiSTer in the internet is a moot point.
The MiSTer project is one of the fastest changing and developing projects out there, new features, factions, cores and such are being added all the time. Sometimes in a span of a week everything you knew about how a certain core or function changed completely.

Thats alot to keep track of in a open source community lead project where 100% of the contributions are from volunteers and donations.
Saying that there disinformation is frankly disingenuous. Compare how the Minimig or ao486 core was in 2018 compared to now, its like the MiSTer is a completely different project.



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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by Newsdee »

You don't even need to edit the wiki if you at least post what didn't work for you or ask for help about it.

Just complaining doesn't help anybody.
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by Shogun »

I think a lot of people don't realize things like this entire mister fpga project, all the documentation, all the websites and information out there is done by volunteers. If you think to yourself you'd like volunteer for something maybe you only think you can volunteer in your local community but there are so many things online you can assist with. Pick something that interests you (like the wiki) and start small to get comfortable and start making edits and contributing. It can be a lot of fun! Personally I get no sense of accomplishment from my own job but I do get it from stuff I do in my personal time. :lol:
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Re: Why are CPS1, CPS1.5, JOTEGO & CPS2 missing from the Wiki?

Unread post by flicky »

lamarax wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:14 pm ↑ An insightful post, coinciding with today's... big announcements ;)
What announcements?
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