MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

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Neocaron
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MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Neocaron »

I just watched today this video and I was just utterly shocked by the content in there:




All the info regarding latency, the project, even the damn filters, even the way the way the games were displayed (720p REALLY?)
it was all so wrong that it made my skin crawl.
Then I decided to go on a rent on Twitter. Anthony is awesome but how can you seriously make a video like this when you are part of such a huge influencial group like LTT. The video got ratioed with a mere 5 to 6% likes (only way for us to know now, thanks you youtube)

Anyway, if you all enjoy the Mister platform, we need to let them know that this was just a terrible video and that this platform that regroups the most talented devs in the scene need to have a better light shine on them. Please share your opinion around and make your voice heard. And if you think it was a great video, well to each there own go ahead and say it as well! :mrgreen:

Tweeter thread:
https://twitter.com/Neocaron/status/1465401931862622219
Milspex
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Re: Mister all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Milspex »

or just not watch it.
Neocaron
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Re: Mister all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Neocaron »

Milspex wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:04 pm or just not watch it.
Hmm no why? Because I disagree on 1 video? That's kind of stupid don't you think?

Someone
:"I don't like carottes"
You: "Well don't eat vegatables"
Me: "how about you make better carottes next time, because I don't like your recipe"

See the difference here?
I'm always mindblown by this kind of comments to be honest. It's not helpful, it serves no purpose, just to voice a fruitless point.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Milspex »

serves no purpose...

you mean like asking on this forum for everyone to join in your twitter rant?
Neocaron
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Neocaron »

Milspex wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:29 pm serves no purpose...

you mean like asking on this forum for everyone to join in your twitter rant?
No more like expressing an opinion instead of supressing it. You know?
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Hetzen »

I didn't think it was as bad as you made out. Neil from RMC is in the comments and he didn't seem to need to correct anything.
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Chris23235
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Chris23235 »

Hetzen wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:37 pm I didn't think it was as bad as you made out. Neil from RMC is in the comments and he didn't seem to need to correct anything.
I wouldn't join any twitter rants but I also found this video terrible.

First of all he did a very poor job of explaining what the MiSTer project is at all. From what he says it sounds like MiSTer is something invented by Intel for their Terasic DE Nano 10 boards.

He constantly mixes up games (software) with consoles/computers (hardware) when he talks about cores, from how he is explaining it, it sounds like you run the game code on the FPGA and not a simulation of the hardware executing the game code from RAM.

It sounds like he don't understand what an FPGA is on a very basic level, but is not willing to admit so (it wouldn't be a problem) and instead throws sentences around like "they are not actually emulators they are also not what people seem to think they are" which sounds snooty. Instead he constantly focuses on the SNAC adapters which are great devices to connect original peripherals but overall not so much superior to MiSTer's fast polling USB input.

Last but not least there were multiple smaller errors like the GPIO pins used for an expansion module "to give it a little more RAM", the DE Nano already comes with 1GB of RAM it is not about the ammount of RAM but about the type of RAM. He says there is no OS but the DE 10 Nano runs Linux as the MiSTer does.

If you are not already into MiSTer or FPGA in general you don't know what he is refering to most of the time, a beginner doesn't get a good introduction into the world of FPGA from this video.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by darksakul »

This video is far better than the Metal Jesus video

And Unlike the Metal Jesus video, the presenter isn't the same person who doing the editing, and research.
I feel if Anthony lead this video instead of just presenting, it probably would of been better.

There nothing said that wasn't true, and yes he didn't cover everything the point was to review the RMC product, not to promote the MiSTer.
It is my great regret that we live in an age that is proud of machines that think and suspicious of people who try to.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Hetzen wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:37 pm I didn't think it was as bad as you made out. Neil from RMC is in the comments and he didn't seem to need to correct anything.
Neil from RMC is behind the very multisystem they are reviewing, I think he would be quite careful with critical comments.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by aberu »

It's fine to give constructive feedback.

It's not okay to be like "YOUR VIDEO IS TERRIBLE" as seems to be the implication here.

You should also take into consideration that it's an unboxing channel.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by aberu »

Chris23235 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:12 pm He constantly mixes up games (software) with consoles/computers (hardware) when he talks about cores, from how he is explaining it, it sounds like you run the game code on the FPGA and not a simulation of the hardware executing the game code from RAM.
Most likely just an editing issue. He doesn't edit the video himself.
Chris23235 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:12 pmIt sounds like he don't understand what an FPGA is on a very basic level, but is not willing to admit so (it wouldn't be a problem) and instead throws sentences around like "they are not actually emulators they are also not what people seem to think they are" which sounds snooty. Instead he constantly focuses on the SNAC adapters which are great devices to connect original peripherals but overall not so much superior to MiSTer's fast polling USB input.
Yeah, he didn't do a good job doing a full technical dive into the distinctions here, but it's a casual unboxing channel, so you should manage your expectations. It's not the LTT channel, it's ShortCircuit. Watch their other vids.
Chris23235 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:12 pmLast but not least there were multiple smaller errors like the GPIO pins used for an expansion module "to give it a little more RAM", the DE Nano already comes with 1GB of RAM it is not about the ammount of RAM but about the type of RAM. He says there is no OS but the DE 10 Nano runs Linux as the MiSTer does.
To the end user, for the most part, especially the casual viewer of this casual youtube channel, this extra information doesn't seem important to me. He should have just said that some cores require this extra piece of RAM, and that's it, sure.
Chris23235 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:12 pmIf you are not already into MiSTer or FPGA in general you don't know what he is refering to most of the time, a beginner doesn't get a good introduction into the world of FPGA from this video.
I don't disagree with that. In the future when people who make things like the MiSTer MultiSystem send out review units to people, they really should heavily encourage the media outlet they sent it to to contact some of us who are very active in this community to ask some questions first. However, even when they have urged that in the past, the review units sometimes sit for months and the reviewer doesn't do this and doesn't ask any questions (MJR).
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Chris23235
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Chris23235 »

aberu wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:00 pm
Chris23235 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:12 pm He constantly mixes up games (software) with consoles/computers (hardware) when he talks about cores, from how he is explaining it, it sounds like you run the game code on the FPGA and not a simulation of the hardware executing the game code from RAM.
Most likely just an editing issue. He doesn't edit the video himself.
Maybe, but this doesn't make the video in itself better. It is a channel with 1.65 million subscribers, a commercial enterprise and not some hobbyist showing stuff. If such an error would appear in a magazine and somebody would tell me this happened while proofreading the text I wouldn't be satisfied either.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Neocaron »

aberu wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:54 pm It's fine to give constructive feedback.

It's not okay to be like "YOUR VIDEO IS TERRIBLE" as seems to be the implication here.

You should also take into consideration that it's an unboxing channel.
Well tbh my reaction was in the heat of the moment and I think that what made it worse for me was the fact, thatI didn't expect the video to be way below average in the first place. Ï was just casualy watching the content from a channel I enjoy on a regular basis.

But when you are passionated by something, it' always hurts when it's not covered properly by a big tech channel.
Anyway, my point wasn't about "renting" even if I used the word to emphasis the fact I wasn't happy with the video. I think my wording on Twitter does go into the contructive feedback category. A bit pissed, but I wasn't being an a**hole.

Anyway moving on... Until the next slap on the face I guess :mrgreen: . I think the best coverage the Mister got from a big channel was from John on Digital Foundry, it just screemed passion, and that's the kind of things I wish we got more often from this type of big channel.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by darksakul »

Chris23235 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:19 am If such an error would appear in a magazine and somebody would tell me this happened while proofreading the text I wouldn't be satisfied either.
Except they didn't actually say anything wrong. Its the Unboxing channel to a Tech media company
Had it been LTT main channel I can see the anger, this is Short circuit, its a glorified Unboxing Therapy with a less pretentious presenter.
It is my great regret that we live in an age that is proud of machines that think and suspicious of people who try to.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Chris23235 »

darksakul wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:14 am
Chris23235 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:19 am If such an error would appear in a magazine and somebody would tell me this happened while proofreading the text I wouldn't be satisfied either.
Except they didn't actually say anything wrong. Its the Unboxing channel to a Tech media company
Had it been LTT main channel I can see the anger, this is Short circuit, its a glorified Unboxing Therapy with a less pretentious presenter.
This is what he says:
"What makes FPGA special? They are kind of processors, but not really. They are a lot slower then most processors are. But they execute code basically on the metal like there is no operating system. It is for a single purpose, so you would use one of these for prototyping, for an ASIC, or you could run Retro Games on them, because why not?"

It's hard to make any sense of his words he and it is convoluted at best.

I don't get the argument, that it is just an unboxing channel. He is not just unboxing, he is presenting the device in action and he is trying to give technical explanations. This goes way beyong unboxing.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Classic80sgmr »

The video may not present Mister FPA the same way an enthusiast would, but is that his audience? I don’t think someone is expected to go out and buy a Mister or a Multisystem just based on this unboxing. It creates awareness which is what the project needs. Even if it gets viewers to Google Mister FPGA then the video is not a disaster, it accomplishes exactly what is needed; more awareness.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by darksakul »

Chris23235 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:58 am
darksakul wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:14 am
Chris23235 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:19 am If such an error would appear in a magazine and somebody would tell me this happened while proofreading the text I wouldn't be satisfied either.
Except they didn't actually say anything wrong. Its the Unboxing channel to a Tech media company
Had it been LTT main channel I can see the anger, this is Short circuit, its a glorified Unboxing Therapy with a less pretentious presenter.
This is what he says:
"What makes FPGA special? They are kind of processors, but not really. They are a lot slower then most processors are. But they execute code basically on the metal like there is no operating system. It is for a single purpose, so you would use one of these for prototyping, for an ASIC, or you could run Retro Games on them, because why not?"

It's hard to make any sense of his words he and it is convoluted at best.

I don't get the argument, that it is just an unboxing channel. He is not just unboxing, he is presenting the device in action and he is trying to give technical explanations. This goes way beyong unboxing.
So you are mad he glanced over and made the most basic of what is an FPGA?

Nothing that was said was wrong. You just need to check your Attitude. The video wasn't made for you, the insider.

FPGA is used mostly to prototype ASICs and other devices. The DE 10 NANO was intended just for that purpose. Terrassic never intended for it to be used for video games, but they are running with it as it brings up awareness of the technology.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Chris23235 »

I never said FPGAs weren't used for prototyping ASICS. Why don't you address the numerous things wrong and/or misleading in the quote and concentrate on the only thing he gets right?

I am not mad, I just like tell things by their name and this video is poor. I don't need to check my attitude, I already explained why I think the video is not informative for people not already educated with FPGAs.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by german_user »

One should not forget that every video is better than no video at all. From this point of view, I personally don't think the video is that bad. To make it "better", the creator would probably have to work much deeper into the subject, kneeling in. It makes a difference whether I have a personal connection to a thing / topic or whether I briefly test something that I have received. There will certainly be a few more videos / Rewievs by the end of the year.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by drgruney »

german_user wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:14 pm One should not forget that every video is better than no video at all.
False
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by german_user »

Then we just don't agree. But that's not bad at all.

Just the fact that we are already discussing it here will be found and read by people who want to find out more.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by caad »

I do not see the sense in actively making excuses for sloppy content made by others.

Why? What does this accomplish? Surely everyone would be better off if the information was accurate and well researched.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by akeley »

So much fuss about an utube video :) The www is a big place, with lots of different people expressing different opinions and statements. You'll never be able to correct all of them, and it's totally fine. Some guy getting some details wrong (if he really did, at that) is not going to cause this project any significant harm, believe me.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by caad »

No I just don't get the mindset, that's all.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by german_user »

This review is a much better one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx45r-BRHxY
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Hetzen »

Just posted that in the Multisystem thread. Agree, it's very good.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by german_user »

See it to late, sorry
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Hetzen »

Np, I was thinking of posting it here as well.
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by drgruney »

german_user wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:52 pm This review is a much better one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx45r-BRHxY
I've been around the internet long enough to know not to click unpreviewed YouTube links. Be gone probable rick-roll!
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Re: MiSTer all in 1 Shortcircuit video disaster / LTT

Unread post by Sarge »

No sense getting upset over what is supposed to be an entry-level look at the MiSTer Multisystem. Yes, there's lots of stuff that could have been covered, but doing so gets heavily into the weeds and doesn't help the lay user at all. The video was fine.
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