issues gettings output on crt tv via ioboard and rgb scart cable

[Sagat]

Hi all,

Feels weird to post here, as i have been happily using my mister for months!

Initially on my lcd monitor via hdmi, and more recently via the vga out of the ioboard to a LG crt monitor. (i believe i have the analogue v6.1) both have worked flawlessly and apart from some minor input issues it has been a great happy adventure. (maybe i will add a sperate post on this issue )

But my end goal was my crt tv, i recently got a B&o mx4200, i love it for my retro consoles, recently mostly ps2 as the mister does most of my older consoles, but still sometimes i use my actual md or pce.
All 3 of these consoles are hooked up with rgb scart, through a scart switch, but i also have used composite for my nes for example, all it takes is a flick of the switch on the scart switch.

In order to use my mister i order the scart cable from retro access, not cheap and it took a while to get here. A friend actually gave me cheaper cable to test with, but i was unable to get it to work, and well with a working alternative in the crt moni i had no great haste to troubleshoot.

But then the retro access cable arrived and i finally tried to connect it.......and no dice.
The best i got was at least seeing some almost pitch black activity on the screen, almost a silouhette of the mister menu.

So now i have been tinkering a few days on and off, but still nothing better..hell to eliminate incompatibility with both my scart switcher and my tv i tried connecting to another tv directly without any switch.
This one an older grundig model, but one i have used and still use, for both composite and rgb scart consoles.

But again nothing, screen just stays black.

So what have i tried?
i looked at my mr bord to verify the switches are set right for rgb output, and afaik they are correct, i found a picture (i believe on this forum and all the switches were set to down.

I have tried SOG switch in both settings
i experimented with the vga power jumper

i tried various setting in the mister ini.

But nothing......
So looking for people who also use the VGA out of the ioboard (pref ana6.1 model) via an rgb scart cable to connect to a consumer crt. In my case a pal tv.
some advice and maybe explanation on that vga power jumper setting and the sync on green switch?

As as for the ini, i currently have this. maybe somehow i have still set my resolution in a way the tv('s) do not like?

[MiSTer]
;VIDEO MODE
video_mode = 2
;VIDEO SETTINGS
menu_pal = 1
dvi_mode = 0
fb_terminal = 1
fb_size = 0
video_info = 0
hdmi_limited = 0
vsync_adjust = 0
;VGA SETTINGS
forced_scandoubler = 0
ypbpr = 0
composite_sync = 0
vga_scaler = 1
direct_video = 0
;VIDEO SCALING
vscale_mode = 0
vscale_border = 0
;AUDIO SETTINGS
hdmi_audio_96k = 0
volumectl = 1
;MISC SETTINGS
key_menu_as_rgui = 0
rbf_hide_datecode = 0
;bootscreen = 0
recents = 1
gamepad_defaults = 1
keyrah_mode = 0x18d80002
reset_combo = 0
osd_timeout = 30
bootcore_timeout = 10

Hoping yu guys and girls have some good advice!

[jimmystones]

Having just finished a trial and error process to get my CRT going with the MiSTer, I feel your pain!! My setup is a bit different, as I have a VGA > SCART cable with additional USB connection that I believe provides the +5V power to activate the PAL input - therefore the VGA power jumper is not relevant to me. If you have a regular, correctly wired VGA cable my understanding is that you'll need that jumper set to 5V for it to work on a PAL TV.... Not an expert though!!!

The major difference I notice in our config files is vga_scaler - mine is set to 0. First question, have you tried it with vga_scaler = 0 and the rest of the current settings the same? If you have vga_scaler = 1 then it'll try and output the menu in the selected video mode, and not sure if video_mode=2 (720x480) will be compatible with a PAL TV or not!

Good luck, it's great when it works

[pacoarcade]

For CRT I think you need composite_sync = 1. This is my configuration for CRT via HDMI to VGA (forget the direct_video setting since you're using VGA output from Analog I/O):

[MiSTer]
direct_video=1
composite_sync=1

By the way I'd remove the SCART switcher off the equation, at least until you get image in your TV.

[Sagat]

Good news! After getting frustrated with testing on my grundig crt tv i decided to give the b&o one more go! And since the scart cables are pretty tight in that tv i decided on going with the scart switcher. And i got picture! unfortunately snes did boot but once in the game it was quite broken (screen looked split into colors and all?) i then fiddled some more and made it actually worse, just starting the core sends the menu crazy, both snes and md.
I then tried arcade and....that was fine? Was able to play final fight and a bit of 1941 )(altho not being able to rotate the screen as with hdmi, but i do believe it was something i read somehwere, and no worries!

In the end what i did was set that jumper to 5 volt, and then used this mister ini (added the snes part myself to see if that would help, not so unfortunately)
Guess what i need to figure out what resolution final fight runs, and to either set that via ini option, or indeed dive into those section per console and force a resolution there i guess......

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0 ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0 ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
; 1 - use integer scale only.
; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0 ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig.
;mouse_throttle=10 ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0 ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0 ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0 ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1 ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30 ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
; Background picture will get darker after double timeout

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
; There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10 ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
; 768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
; 1024 bytes - chars 0-127
; 1136 bytes - chars 0-141
; up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0 ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
; video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=2

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems.
vsync_adjust=0

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
jammasd_vid=0x04D8
jammasd_pid=0xF3AD

[SNES]
composite_sync=0

[AtariST]
composite_sync=0

[ZX81]
composite_sync=0

[Pacman]
composite_sync=0

[jimmystones]

vga_scaler = 0 will indeed leave you with the output as is from the core, so no rotation for vert arcade cores - but it's the lowest latency option, so if you are using a CRT for that reason it is what it is! Having serious thoughts about a way to rotate my Trinitron 90 degrees now!

Odd that you've got difference behaviour between arcade and other cores though... I use menu_pal = 1, composite_sync = 0, and the SOG switch off, and everything works fairly consistently (vector-based cores like Asteroids being the exception it seems) without extra settings per core.

[Sagat]

Ok guys, everything works. To sum up my my steps to get it working.

For my ' main' crt tv (B&O mx4200) i needed the vga pwr jumper set to 5v
second issues was the crt filters. I do like scanlines when playing on lcd and i still had them enabled. Ironically my REAL crt tv couldn't dealt with this! Appearantly this was the difference for the arcade cores, mostly amusing is that i picked 1941 where i did play 1942 a lot already and that one most likely also had scanlines enabled! but not 1941 and i guess neither did final fight (tho i actually would have sworn i did enable them there as well?)

Note this is while also using a scart switch, it is the most basic cheap scart switch u can image but i does have rbg on and off setting!

For the record here is my current mister.ini
[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0 ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0 ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
; 1 - use integer scale only.
; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0 ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig.
;mouse_throttle=10 ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0 ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0 ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0 ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1 ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30 ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
; Background picture will get darker after double timeout

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
; There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10 ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
; 768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
; 1024 bytes - chars 0-127
; 1136 bytes - chars 0-141
; up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0 ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
; video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=2

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems.
vsync_adjust=0

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
jammasd_vid=0x04D8
jammasd_pid=0xF3AD

[SNES]
composite_sync=1

[GENESIS]
vga_scaler=0

[AtariST]
composite_sync=0

[ZX81]
composite_sync=0

[Pacman]
composite_sync=0
----------
I still have some minor issues tho, the mister updat scripts also wants some different settings and the neo geo core output was a bit too wide for my tv. but i guess this could be fixed with the subsections as i already have them!

Will also do some compares with tg16/pc and megadrive where i have the actual consoles and rgb scart cables set up to the same. The image is good but not as great as i had hoped, not sure if that is me nitpcking or really a thing......could also simply be that a crt monitor (in this case an LG Flatron 915FTplus) indeed really is the poor man's pvm and just better or nices (at least to my eyes) then the tv...

[akeley]

The image quality on older TV sets is a lottery, there's no guarantee that you will get one which looks very good - even if it's a decent brand like B&O. Most of them are ~20 (or more) years old so that's to be expected.

But a TV in a good shape should look better than a monitor with added scanlines. Unless you like the super-sharp "emulator look". My preference is with the softer TV style, I even find PVMs to be too exageratted when it comes to scanlines and pixel separation in most cases.

[hiddenbyleaves]

I also could not get a stable picture until I turned off the scanlines I had set under the scandoubler options. I guess it affects the sync. They are called scandoubler options so maybe they turn the scandoubler back on for the cores which you have saved a config with them enabled?

[Sagat]

Well i do love the look of the b&o with my ' actual' Megadrive and pce. But for mister it seems less good?
The good thing is with the mister now set up on my moni again i could boot up pce and md games and compare them side by side.
And maybe i can still mess about with resolution or other settings to get a better picture.

And well the monitor is a crt monitor and again i have heard ppl say that some crt moni (not sure if mine is good enough for that?) are indeed a poor man's pvm. But i am sure i love the look. And well, the screen was not doing anything anyways so may as wel use it.

Then again yeah, with scanlines (scandoubler 50% for mister) but also retroarch, i do like my lcd screen as wel, but i think out of those 3 choices the crt moni is my favorite so far.

i only used the living room oled when a friend visited and i actually DID NOT like the look there, but i was to short on time (or lazy) to wanna fiddle with mister settings and tv settings for that matter. I am pretty sure that when these 2 are properly set up they should also give a great image (maybe even the best?) , as my chipped ps3 with retro arch also give a pretty picture on that screen.