What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Discussion of keyboards, gamepads, joysticks and other input related peripherals.
MikeS1
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What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by MikeS1 »

Been looking around for options on arcade sticks and it gets a bit overwhelming but the google doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0 seems to provide a lot of great information.

The question that I have would be should I just build my own stick using an arduino and DaemonBite's method? It looks like it would give me the best performance or accuracy to a real arcade. I was initially thinking about the Mayflash F500 V1 but the latency seems pretty high, the 8Bitdo Arcade Stick looked pretty good but I cant find it in stock in Canada anywhere.

Anyone else prefer building their own? if so where are the best sources for shells, and premium buttons/sticks.

Thanks!
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MISTerMark
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by MISTerMark »

I was going to use a Demonbite or a Brook universal for mine.

Another option could be to buy a decent used stick and stick a Demonbite in it.

Here is a good video for different case options if you want to diy.

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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by hscorpio »

https://www.amazon.com/PowerA-Wireless- ... 08GGP4VVB/

I got this for my MiSTer and while I can't measure the latency, from what I can tell it works well. I've played Punch Out with it and didn't notice any lag. I just swapped out the stick with a Sanwa and will do the buttons next (they're kinda mushy), but so far I really enjoy it. I am a newbie with sticks though, I have no prior experience.

I'd be super curious what the Latency is like but this seems to be a wildly unpopular stick I can't find much info on.

I was going to initially get a Mayflash but heard the latency was terrible so I got this with the intention of trying out and returning if I wasn't satisfied. I am satisfied.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by PikWik »

as far as the "standard" for most FGC enthusiasts, it would be the brooks UFB (universal fighting board) with your choice of japanese/korean parts.
i have a couple UFBs in some HRAP3 SAs, and they have been solid/reliable.

sanwa parts were what everyone had a couple years ago, but now im seeing more korean levers instead of JLFs.
i have always used JLFs and either sanwa/seimitsu buttons, as they are cheap enough to not be a big deal when they wear out.

the stick/buttons/shell are important, but the brooks UFB will be the brains of the arcade stick and control the input latency.
i would say to get a shell that has some weight to it, because it will move around if the stick is too light.

perhaps also take a look at this spreadsheet MiSTeraddons made that has a rather exhaustive list of controllers and latency tests
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

------------------------------

also, from personal experience, there is a lot of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) when you first get into arcade sticks.
my advice would be to get 1-2 sticks and not get caught up in the hardware hype and LEDs/modding.
a UFB, JLF and sanwa buttons are the standard for a reason.
it can get out of hand pretty quick, but i do recommend to get at least 1 "pro" stick with a UFB :D
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

hscorpio wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:10 pm https://www.amazon.com/PowerA-Wireless- ... 08GGP4VVB/

I got this for my MiSTer and while I can't measure the latency, from what I can tell it works well. I've played Punch Out with it and didn't notice any lag. I just swapped out the stick with a Sanwa and will do the buttons next (they're kinda mushy), but so far I really enjoy it. I am a newbie with sticks though, I have no prior experience.

I'd be super curious what the Latency is like but this seems to be a wildly unpopular stick I can't find much info on.

I was going to initially get a Mayflash but heard the latency was terrible so I got this with the intention of trying out and returning if I wasn't satisfied. I am satisfied.
Also got this as my first stick, also was steered here because the new 8bitdo wired latency tested pretty high, and I wanted something that could handle Switch wireless too. I also don't notice any Mister latency issues when wired but would like to know how to test properly. The thing actually looks on sale for Amazon Prime day so pretty good price on it right now.

One nice non-advertised thing is that a spare octogonal gate is hidden inside the unit, which you can swap out for the installed square one pretty easily. Also the default IMO garish red top is just cardstock under the plastic that is easily replaceable using an online template or the included alternate dark swirly appearance. Another note is that this lever is a "real" Sanwa clone in that it should be just plug-and-play with a JLF, wheras the "moddable" 8bitdo actually requires some soldering to change out.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by hscorpio »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:36 pm Also got this as my first stick, also was steered here because the new 8bitdo wired latency tested pretty high, and I wanted something that could handle Switch wireless too. I also don't notice any Mister latency issues when wired but would like to know how to test properly. The thing actually looks on sale for Amazon Prime day so pretty good price on it right now.

One nice non-advertised thing is that a spare octogonal gate is hidden inside the unit, which you can swap out for the installed square one pretty easily. Also the default IMO garish red top is just cardstock under the plastic that is easily replaceable using an online template or the included alternate dark swirly appearance. Another note is that this lever is a "real" Sanwa clone in that it should be just plug-and-play with a JLF, wheras the "moddable" 8bitdo actually requires some soldering to change out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =369482991

The latency spreadsheet has instructions how to test but it appears to be more work than I'm capable of / interested in (see the "procedure" tab)

-----

Ok so I should add more info, in case it's relevant to anyone in the future.
The stock stick (of the PowerA Fusion Wireless Arcade Stick for Nintendo Switch) felt fine to me and since it's a Sanwa clone, I was happy with it / being able to swap out the gate. I ended up getting a 4-way restrictor plate (SANWA GT-8F 4/8 Way Restrictor Plate Gate JLF Series) so I could alternate between 8-way controls and 4-way (for games like Pac Man, Donkey Kong, etc...) and the idea was to just swap it out whenever I wanted to.

After doing this several times, I had struggled with how much force/effort was required and saw in a youtube video someone mentioned 'clones' are a lot harder than authentic Sanwas when it comes to removing gates. So I decided to just get a Sanwa since I anticipated doing this a lot (SANWA JLF-TP-8YT Original Joystick - for Arcade Game 4 & 8 Way Adjustable). Turns out that it was 100% true, after installing the Sanwa swapping between 4 and 8-way is WAY easier. In fact, while removing the original stick when replacing it, I had such a hard time with removing one of the gates I ended up bending the plastic so now the stock stick is unusable for me. Not a huge deal since I have no use for it, but the difference in quality was noticeable.

The only issue I had with installing the Sanwa stick was getting the bracket to mount in the stick. I had to use the PowerA stick's mounting bracket to screw the Sanwa stick in since it seems the slots didn't line up.

And I would add I much prefer the Sanwa stick's feel to the stock, but honestly I didn't notice anything wrong with the stock stick until I replaced it with a Sanwa.

oh yea, and I took the screws out the bottom mount and put some stick velcro strips on the sides so I can easily swap gates. It's a bit unsightly but it works well until I find a more elegant solution 😅
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by LamerDeluxe »

PikWik wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:17 pm as far as the "standard" for most FGC enthusiasts, it would be the brooks UFB (universal fighting board) with your choice of japanese/korean parts.
i have a couple UFBs in some HRAP3 SAs, and they have been solid/reliable.

sanwa parts were what everyone had a couple years ago, but now im seeing more korean levers instead of JLFs.
i have always used JLFs and either sanwa/seimitsu buttons, as they are cheap enough to not be a big deal when they wear out.

the stick/buttons/shell are important, but the brooks UFB will be the brains of the arcade stick and control the input latency.
i would say to get a shell that has some weight to it, because it will move around if the stick is too light.
I've just modded my non-SA HRAP3 with Sanwa buttons, Kowal short-throw actuator and 2LB spring. The UFB looks like a really interesting option to add support for more systems. I wonder if the latency be much lower than what I have now.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by PikWik »

before misteraddons made his exhaustive input lag list, a FGC member, teyah, created an input lag test for a bunch of arcade sticks.
my HRAP3-SA is in there too, but at a "F" grade without a UFB :(

S: 0.00 - 0.99 ms
A: 1.00 - 2.99 ms
B: 3.00 - 4.99 ms
C: 5.00 - 7.49 ms
D: 7.50 - 9.99 ms
E: 10.00 - 13.33 ms
F: 13.34 - 16.67 ms (1 frame)

please note, this was before the UFB was made, when the PS360+ board was the king of arcade stick boards.
the "brook fighting board" mentioned in teyah's chart is not the same as the universal fighting board (UFB), which is an "S" class fighting board with a 0.767ms input lag rating. which is in the top 10 list of best wired controllers for the MiSTer - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1214855193
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the standard Hori RAP 3 (HRAP3) has an input lag rating of 14.37ms according to teyah's findings
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by LamerDeluxe »

PikWik wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:30 pmthe standard Hori RAP 3 (HRAP3) has an input lag rating of 14.37ms according to teyah's findings
Wow, that is pretty bad, thanks for the information! Would be a good idea to replace the board then.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by redsteakraw »

If you are making or want to make a custom stick you can go with Daemonbite, keep in mind it won't really work with consoles so this will be a PC / MiSTer stick if you go that route. That being said I made a Daemonbite Stick with a real working coin mech and I am happy with it. Daemonbite is also the cheaper solution both DIY and prebuilt.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by pbsk8 »

I have a madcatz TE2 guilty gear edition

I think it is a good arcade stick,

don't know any manual lag test for arcade sticks so far
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by jlancaster86 »

Mayflash recently released new firmware for their F300 and F500 models to improve input latency. Is somebody able to update the Input Latency spreadsheet with the new results?
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by PikWik »

someone did some measurements on the F500, yes !

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id imagine they will be updated at some point.
thats actually quite an improvement from the latency they had before

(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1214855193)
old firmware
F300 - 14.349ms
F500 - 10.267ms

new firmware, v1.11
F300 - guessing ~4 to 5ms
F500 - 3.1823ms
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by Iceblink »

Mayflash released a new firmware:

https://www.mayflash.com/Support/download.php?class2=24

So now the lag input is probably further reduced?

Would be nice if someone is willing to do the same tests as above ;)
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by ItalianGrandma »

Iceblink wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:05 am Mayflash released a new firmware:

https://www.mayflash.com/Support/download.php?class2=24

So now the lag input is probably further reduced?

Would be nice if someone is willing to do the same tests as above ;)
+1 for this! I have an F300 Elite which also got a firmware update a few months after the latest for the F500/F500 Elite and would be very curious to know what the latency is now. If it is truly close to 1ms as Mayflash claims, that could make the F300 Elite one of the best budget sticks for the MiSTer.
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by fhw72 »

ItalianGrandma wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:28 pm
Iceblink wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:05 am

Mayflash released a new firmware:

https://www.mayflash.com/Support/download.php?class2=24

So now the lag input is probably further reduced?

Would be nice if someone is willing to do the same tests as above ;)

+1 for this! I have an F300 Elite which also got a firmware update a few months after the latest for the F500/F500 Elite and would be very curious to know what the latency is now. If it is truly close to 1ms as Mayflash claims, that could make the F300 Elite one of the best budget sticks for the MiSTer.

I tested it with Firmware V1.13 with the F500 Elite:

Minimum: 0.41ms
Maximum: 3.20ms
Average: 1.43ms
StdDev: 0.42ms

In case you want to do some additional calculation I have added the log from PuTTY.

Mayflash_F500_Elite_V1.13.log
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Re: What is the best option for a low latency arcade stick?

Unread post by ItalianGrandma »

fhw72 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 11:18 am
ItalianGrandma wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:28 pm
Iceblink wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:05 am

Mayflash released a new firmware:

https://www.mayflash.com/Support/download.php?class2=24

So now the lag input is probably further reduced?

Would be nice if someone is willing to do the same tests as above ;)

+1 for this! I have an F300 Elite which also got a firmware update a few months after the latest for the F500/F500 Elite and would be very curious to know what the latency is now. If it is truly close to 1ms as Mayflash claims, that could make the F300 Elite one of the best budget sticks for the MiSTer.

I tested it with Firmware V1.13 with the F500 Elite:

Minimum: 0.41ms
Maximum: 3.20ms
Average: 1.43ms
StdDev: 0.42ms

In case you want to do some additional calculation I have added the log from PuTTY.

Mayflash_F500_Elite_V1.13.log

Nice! Those are really encouraging numbers. It's probably pretty likely the the F300 would have similar results, but it would be interesting to confirm if there are any differences in the firmwares.

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