MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Discussion about displays and related hardware including MiSTer filters and video settings.
User avatar
marcelosofth
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by marcelosofth »

I think I was tricked, I bought Mister thinking it ran games at their original resolutions and actually only runs games with a minimum resolution of "640x480@60"

Ps. I tried to get information to edit the file "Mister.ini" and inject the resolution "320x240" but without success, is that right? :cry:
Bas
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:36 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by Bas »

You weren't tricked. The analogue output gives you the signal and timings of the original hardware. Are you using HDMI? That has scaling to accommodate modern screens but can be adjusted.
akeley
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 pm
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by akeley »

The only "trick" here is maths: 320x2=640, 240x2=480 (or values bigger than 2, depending on your monitor/need). It's simply scaling, which is obviously necessary if you want to display on modern panels. I use CRTs and can assure you that vast majority of MiSTer's cores output appropiate resolutions/timings, and that should be the same for HDMI.

In mister.ini there's a bunch of predefined video_modes which you might use (eg: video_mode=12 will switch to 1920x1440@60). You can also creat your own modelines. If you want more detailed help you'll need to provide more info about what display you are using.
Neocaron
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:16 am
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by Neocaron »

marcelosofth wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:31 pm I think I was tricked, I bought Mister thinking it ran games at their original resolutions and actually only runs games with a minimum resolution of "640x480@60"

Ps. I tried to get information to edit the file "Mister.ini" and inject the resolution "320x240" but without success, is that right? :cry:
Why do you say "tricked"? You have all the settings in the world to get any desired output with the Mister. It just requires some basic knowledge, a tv that supports the desired output resolution AND framerate. And finally some tweaks in the settings if necessary. :roll:
User avatar
marcelosofth
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by marcelosofth »

Is it possible to use a video_mode then different from the ones in the mister.ini for Samsung LED TV ´55? or any setting in video_mode is for CRT monitor only.
caffeinekid
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:03 am
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by caffeinekid »

Tricked?

Plug your MiSTer into a consumer television and then tell us that it doesn't do native resolutions.

If you are using an flat-screen monitor then you haven't been tricked unless you have tricked yourself or not read the info correctly.
DevilHunterWolf
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:07 am
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by DevilHunterWolf »

I think some explanations will help here. Yes, the MiSTer can output to native resolution. How? That can be a bit less straight forward. The first thing to know is that most displays these days won't actually handle the old console 320 x 240 (interlaced) resolution and the others similar around that point. Heck, it's even difficult to find one that will even handle the original 15KHz signal. It's a resolution and signal that is a relic of the past. CRTs are the best bet for that thing and even that's not a guarantee. A lot of computer CRTs can't handle the 15KHz leaving mostly consumer and professional CRT TVs (like PVMs) the main display of choice. There are the few exceptions out there like the Asus ProArt monitor I've got, but otherwise it's safe to assume any "modern" display is not going to support the native resolution of the old consoles, computers, arcades, etc. Modern displays commonly won't go below 640 x 480 at 31KHz. Anything less and the picture won't come in.

So, where does that leave the MiSTer? With the right capable display, you can certainly run at native to the core. Plenty of people have grabbed a PVM or CRT with component or SCART connections and directly connected the MiSTer. There's two settings to leave at default to complete the configuration: vga_scaler=0 and forced_scandoubler=0. The vga_scaler=0 means the MiSTer won't use its HDMI scaler over the analog out (regardless if it's a VGA to VGA, VGA to Component, etc). The forced_scandoubler=0 means that the MiSTer will let the analog out run at 15KHz. Both of those turned off allow the analog connection to both run at their original resolution and refresh rate. Turning on either of these will cancel out the native settings. The vga_scaler=1 will force the resolution to be at HDMI's lowest compatible resolution of 480p and forced_scandoubler=1 locks in a minimum 480p and 31KHz for compatibility with monitors that don't support lower than that. If you have either or both of those settings turned on, you *won't* run at native resolution regardless of if you have an appropriate display.

You mentioned a 55" Samsung TV. That doesn't sound like a display that will handle the original 240i at 15KHz. But let's take the hypothetical. What if you somehow were able to force the original resolution on that TV? It would look like absolute garbage. A TV that size is not going to upscale that picture nice, regardless of if its a 720p, 1080p, or 4K display. You take a small picture and blow it up, it looks bad. But, that's part of why the MiSTer is great: it can cleanly scale that image before the TV does any additional processing. Having the TV itself upscale a 320 x 240 image up to say 1920 x 1080 is going to look a lot worse than having the MiSTer give out a clean 1920 x 1080 image and having the TV keep it at 1920 x 1080. The effect is even worse going all the way to 4K territory. 320 x 240 blown up to a 3840 x 2160 capable display is not pretty. But again, a modern display is not going below 640 x 480.

If you're not trying to use a core on a CRT TV, then don't even concern yourself with native resolution. The TV is not going to handle it and even if it could, it would make the MiSTer look like a terrible waste of money. Instead, set in a resolution that is closer to the resolution of the TV. If it's a 1080p TV, then the MiSTer has an ini setting for 1920 x 1080. If it's a 4K TV, then you're going to want to try the 1920 x 1440p option to see if it handles a 1440p resolution. The MiSTer doesn't do native 4K, but the 1440p option will fill more of the screen and will scale 240i nicer than it would set to 1080p. And if the clean look doesn't suit your tastes, then that's where the video scaler options in each core will help add scanlines, soften the picture, straight up blur for composite simulation, etc. Looking to run native resolutions on a modern TV is a dead end. That's only a path for appropriate CRTs.

Edit: Re-reading, I wanted to clarify. The vga_scaler setting doesn't *force* 640 x 480 over the analog. What I meant to say is that it won't go lower than 480p because it's using the HDMI's video output settings. Turning it on will use what you set in the MiSTer ini for the display. If someone happened to have a monitor that was VGA but not HDMI, they could use vga_scaler=1 to benefit from higher resolutions, custom settings, and video scaler filters that the HDMI output has. That's the benefit of that option. It allows someone to decide to either let analog out be native to the core or let analog out use the HDMI scaler.
User avatar
marcelosofth
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by marcelosofth »

I would like to ask you for help with a single thing that is bothering me, I have a Samsung 4k ´55 LED TV, and I am not at all finding a setting to have a smooth vertical scroll without small stops on the screen, I don't know more to do? this is mainly in Arcade Cores!
User avatar
Gaor
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 6:58 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by Gaor »

marcelosofth wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:56 pm I would like to ask you for help with a single thing that is bothering me, I have a Samsung 4k ´55 LED TV, and I am not at all finding a setting to have a smooth vertical scroll without small stops on the screen, I don't know more to do? this is mainly in Arcade Cores!
goodnight.gif
goodnight.gif (297.48 KiB) Viewed 375 times
User avatar
SuperBabyHix
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 8:26 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by SuperBabyHix »

marcelosofth wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:56 pm I would like to ask you for help with a single thing that is bothering me, I have a Samsung 4k ´55 LED TV, and I am not at all finding a setting to have a smooth vertical scroll without small stops on the screen, I don't know more to do? this is mainly in Arcade Cores!
The setting you want to adjust is in the mister.ini is vsync_adjust

vsync_adjust=1 should match the original systems and allow for smooth scrolling.
vsync_adjust=2 will do the same, but with lower latency.

Note the these settings may not be compatible with your TV.
And note that compatibility would be on a per core basis. For example your TV may work with the NES core set to vsync_adjust=2, but the Neo Geo core may not.
This is entirely dependent on your disaplsy being able to handle the differences in refresh rate.
User avatar
marcelosofth
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by marcelosofth »

Thanks SuperBabyHix for the answer, it's really true, the NES is very nice the vertical scroll, now the Arcades Cores are bad and my TV really didn't adapt with any of the 3 options of "vsync_adjust" and I will have to live with the Scroll vetical with hiccup, how sad!
User avatar
SuperBabyHix
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 8:26 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by SuperBabyHix »

If you have the time and inclination, you can create per core settings in the mister.ini, and at least get smooth scrolling for the cores your TV is compatible with. Typically you just need to create a new section for the cores at the end with the individual settings for which you would like to deviate from the main config. For instance if you want vsync_adjust= 2 for the NES but vsync_adjust=1 for Genesis (and your overall mister.ini has vsync_adjust=0 for everything else) you would just add these lines at the end of the ini file:

[nes]
vsync_adjust=2

[genesis]
vsync_adjust=1
User avatar
LamerDeluxe
Posts: 385
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: MiSTer doesn't support native 240p resolution?

Unread post by LamerDeluxe »

Arcade cores will often have non-standard display frequencies as they used their own CRT displays. This will often not work correctly with displays that expect 50 or 59/60 Hz, so the only solution then is a non-smooth frame-rate.
Post Reply