Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

thorr
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Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

I have spent a lot of time searching for information on how to connect from the MiSTer's HDMI port to an SD 480i TV with component inputs. It seems that going from HDMI to VGA with an adapter, and then from VGA to Component with another adapter is problematic due to multiple reasons. First, the HDMI to VGA adapter is expecting an RGB signal from the HDMI port, not Component Y/Pb/Pr. Second, it is still not clear to me whether a VGA to Component cable with three RCA connectors handles the Sync on Green conversion or not.

So, instead of attempting to go down that road, I did some searching and found an HDMI RGB to Component plus Stereo Audio converter without a Scaler. I am hoping this will work because all it does is transcode the RGB signal from the HDMI port to Component Y/Pb/Pr and send the PCM audio to stereo RCA jacks. Whatever is at the input is sent to the output without scaling it, and it works with 480i.

This is what I purchased, and I am waiting for it to arrive. I hope it works:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-5RCA-R ... 4127034242

Edit: My post on 12/5/2020 below has the latest device that works perfectly for me for everything: https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-Tech-Digital ... 4222036088
thorr
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Is it possible to use the scaler and send everything to the TV as 480i by default and then on a per-core basis disable the scaler so it has the native timings if the core is already 480i?

For example, if I want to play the arcade version of Donkey Kong that is normally rotated 90 degrees, can I run it through the scaler to rotate it but still use 480i?
Edit: I saw in another thread that you can use the dip switches in the arcade core to use Cocktail mode to rotate the screen in many arcade cores. This is awesome. For the rest, can you use the scaler at 480i?

Also, can I use the scaler with the ao486 core to always output to 480i to the TV even though the ao486 internal signal might be 640x480 or 320x200, etc.?

If so, what settings do I need in my Mister for the 480i/240p timings?
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Talking to myself here for my own future reference. I got this from an atari-forum post. This may work, but I currently have no way to test. The below has [Menu] over it but if it works, maybe it can apply to other cores as well.

In order to have menu core at 640x240@60hz I created a custom resolution, I paste here what you have to append to mister.ini:
[Menu]
video_mode=640,8,58,78,240,1,3,18,12324
vga_scaler=1
vsync_adjust=2
vscale_mode=0
paulbnl
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by paulbnl »

The scaler doesn't currently support 480i output so you are limited to 240p. Rotating the image 90 degrees will usually look bad at 240p.

Instead of vga_scaler=1 you'll need to set direct_video=0 per core that you want to enable the scaler for. vga_scaler=1 enables the scaler on the VGA output of the IO board.

The menu core automatically outputs 240p when direct_video=1 so you don't need to add settings for the menu core.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Thank you very much! This is very helpful information. I should be receiving my HDMI to Component converter today so I will be able to try everything out.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

I got my HDMI to Component converter and have the following situations.

With direct_video=1, it works and looks beautiful with some cores like NES and Genesis, but it has no sound. Duck Hunt works with the lightgun. If I switch to another core like ao486, it gives a scrambled mess but seems to enable the sound. If I then switch back to NES, the screen is not stable but the sound works. As soon as I unplug and plug the HDMI converter back in, the screen looks great again but it kills the sound.

With direct_video=0, it also works and sound works and surprisingly, Duck Hunt works too! Except, the video is significantly squished horizontally. It looks like it is 9x16 aspect ratio. I will keep working on this, but wanted to share my findings so far...

Edit: After power cycling, I can't get direct_video=0 to sync at all anymore. I am trying to find video_mode timings that work. Does anyone know what timings the MiSTer Menu uses? The menu works great on direct_video=1 but I have no idea what timings it is using.

Edit 2: I tried putting an HDMI two-way splitter in the chain and it helps and hurts at the same time. With direct_video=1, it fixes the sound, but the picture is a little messed up and this changes depending on the core. With SNES, the picture flickers like crazy. With NES, the picture is shifted to the left. I am thinking I need one of the HDMI signal cleaner devices, or maybe a different HDMI transcoder. The picture is great with this when there is no sound. I have yet to get both sound and great picture to work together. I have even seen it switch between bad picture and having sound, and good picture with sound both while it is in the middle of it running something. It's like the sound is corrupting the picture.

Edit 3: Since direct_video=1 works perfectly for the picture with most cores, I ordered an HDMI audio extractor device that I will try putting in the chain to see if I can get audio out of it before sending it to the component adapter. I also ordered a different HDMI to component adapter. Hopefully one or the other will do the trick. Now the only thing I am having problems with are some cores have scrolling picture like C64. I don't know how to adjust the settings because I can't see what I am doing, but I am thinking it might be set up as PAL. I would have to change the config and hook it up to an HDMI monitor, go into the core to adjust the setting and then change the video mode back.

Edit 4: I was able to get the scaler to at least sort of work well enough so I can see something with:
video_mode=320,336,96,48,240,250,2,33,25175
It shows two duplicate tall and skinny images that are small in the upper half of the screen, but I can at least read the text. I was able to go into the C64 core and Atari 800 core and change it from PAL to NTSC. This solved the scrolling issue. Making progress... I really wish I could find the magic settings for the scaler to work properly.

Edit 5: I got it to work with these timings (yeah!!!) but it is low resolution so it is huge but at least I am getting there...
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,8,6,6120

Edit 6: Ok, I am finally getting this figured out. You need to use the third column named CVT-RBv2 timings at https://tomverbeure.github.io/video_timings_calculator. This works:
video_mode=640,8,32,40,240,1,8,6,11016

Edit 7: I ran the update_all script and now I can't get it to sync anymore with any of the above timings. direct_video=1 still works fine and looks great. I wish I knew those timings.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by paulbnl »

Direct video is completely out of spec for HDMI so it can be difficult to find something that works. I think you are the first one to have found a HDMI to Component converter that works at all with Direct video.

For the audio problem have you tried setting hdmi_audio_96k=1? If that doesn't work then hopefully your audio extractor works properly. I am using a HDMI splitter with integrated audio extractor that works well.

The image looks squished with the scaler enabled at 640x240 because the scaler thinks the screen aspect ratio is 8:3. You need to use 320x240 but then it doesn't have enough pixels to scale well horizontally.

If you post your entire MiSTer.ini contents then I can take a look why it's not syncing anymore with direct_video=0.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Thanks! Yes, I tried the hdmi_audio_96k=1 setting, but it didn't help.

I saw there was a new "aspect ratio" configuration capability in the latest MiSTer changelog. I wonder if that would help with the 8:3 problem if I ever get it to work again.


Here is my Mister.ini. Today it is working again for some reason. The only issue is it pops up the logo COMPONENT on my TV and it stays there because I think the signal is unstable. Can you post what settings you recommend for the video timings? I am just taking stabs at it so far. Whatever the MiSTer menu uses looks good but I think it might be going off the sides of the screen with overscan because my background image is cut off on the sides. I am not sure.

Edit: YES!!!! The aspect ratio setting in the ao486 core fills the screen! Now I just need better timings that don't cause the COMPONENT logo. Also, there is overscan on the top and bottom and sides.

[MiSTer]

direct_video=0 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
hdmi_limited=1 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
vsync_adjust=0 ; not sure if this is only in use when direct_video=0

ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output. Not sure if this affects HDMI port or not.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output. Not sure if this is only for the VGA IO board.

vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output. Only used by the VGA IO board.
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core). Affects both VGA and HDMI output ports.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
; video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
;video_mode=4

;CRT TV
;video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,8,6,6120 ; this works, but it is 320x240 so it is huge (not anymore)
video_mode=640,8,32,40,240,1,8,6,11016 ; this works too (not anymore)

;others that were tried on CRT
;video_mode=320,336,96,48,240,250,2,33,25175 ; This sort of works on CRT so you can read text
;video_mode=704,8,32,40,240,11,8,6,11572
;video_mode=640,8,58,78,240,1,3,18,12324
;video_mode=640,16,88,64,240,6,5,13,12700
;video_mode=1600,70,150,215,240,4,3,15,32000

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=59
refresh_max=60


key_menu_as_rgui=0 ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)



hdmi_audio_96k=0 ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
; 1 - use integer scale only.
; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0 ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig.
;mouse_throttle=10 ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0 ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0 ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
fb_size=0 ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1 ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30 ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0 ; Display OSD menu rotated, 0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
; There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10 ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
; 768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
; 1024 bytes - chars 0-127
; 1136 bytes - chars 0-141
; up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/Misc_NES.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=2

dvi_mode=0 ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.



; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0





; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=0

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by paulbnl »

The menu uses these timings with direct video: video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 but this also has overscan.

I think it's better to have a slightly larger range with refresh_min=57 and refresh_max=62 although those are only used with vsync_adjust=1 or 2. You should use vsync_adjust=2 for the lowest lag. It is only for direct_video=0.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Thanks! I will try it after I get home from work this evening. I had the problem again where it wouldn't sync this morning after messing with the timings too much (increasing beyond 640 horizontally). Putting it back wasn't displaying the same as before. It gets a purple glow at the top of the screen and looks less crisp. Hopefully leaving it off for a long time will let it cool off and work properly again. I think the TV is the culprit due to having to deal with the bad timings. However, when using direct_video=1, it looks perfect even when it is doing the purple problem with direct_video=0, so I don't know. I will definitely try the new timings you posted and hopefully that will solve most of my issues. From there, I can try adjusting it to fix the overscan. Thanks again!

Edit: for my future reference, these might be helpful:
https://arachnoid.com/modelines/ <--- Has Checkboxes for Increased Margins for Overscan and Computation Details
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... al_timings
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... 66402.1760
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

paulbnl wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:06 pm The menu uses these timings with direct video: video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 but this also has overscan.

I think it's better to have a slightly larger range with refresh_min=57 and refresh_max=62 although those are only used with vsync_adjust=1 or 2. You should use vsync_adjust=2 for the lowest lag. It is only for direct_video=0.
Update... I set up those settings and tried 0, 1 and 2 for vsync_adjust. I don't get a good signal when using the scaler. Switching to the direct_video=1 looks perfect. Something is different about the scaler, but I am not sure what.

I tried a bunch of new resolutions with the scaler and I keep getting a purple screen with a mostly messed up image. It seems like the scaler is not capable of outputting the same signal as direct video. It's very strange.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

I just ordered an Extron VSC 500 scan converter from ebay. I think this may solve all of my problems. Here are some of the benefits:

It is supposed to convert anything to 480i which will give me more resolution than 240p.
It also allows adjustments to get it to fit nicely on the screen. Hopefully all incoming signals will be adapted to the perfected adjustments.
It is supposed to be zero lag as long as the frame rate remains the same (don't convert from PAL). I will be able to test the lag with Duck Hunt.
I should be able to use Direct Video=1 for anything except maybe ao486 which has flakey direct video timings currently.
I should be able to use the MiSTer scaler with it so I can use ao486 (if needed) and rotate my arcade cores.
It has a VGA output passthrough so I can also hook up a VGA monitor with the original signal. I may prefer this when using the ao486 core.


I will use the old HDMI to VGA and audio adapter and plug it into the Extron, and send component to the TV from the Extron and audio from the HDMI to VGA adapter. It has a minimum input source requirement of 24 kHz so I will need to use the scan doubler in the MiSTer. Hopefully this doesn't degrade the image quality. It also has filters to manage flickering and sharpening to maximize image quality. If Duck Hunt works and looks as good as it does now, then I am golden and will return what I can from the stuff I just ordered. If not, I may need to switch between using the Extron and my current setup once I get the audio working with direct video. Hopefully that won't be necessary.

Edit: Here is a really good video series on this product's brother which is essentially the same with some extra features I won't use, and some competing products. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcIiHd0BnGM What I learned is that 240p does not look interlaced, it just has scan lines with no flicker whereas 480i will look interlaced. The flicker controls on the Extron should eliminate the flicker, but I am not sure if it will look as good as the 240p. This means that I will probably want to use 480i for ao486 and rotated arcade games, and native 240p not running through the scaler for everything else. I will probably just have two HDMI cables sitting behind the MiSTer and I can switch those manually, and I can either run the two component ends through my manual component A/V switchbox or use S Video with the scaler sources and switch the input on the TV. Lots of testing coming my way...

What would be really nice is if the scaler in the MiSTer would support 480i and properly support 240p like the native cores do with direct video. Then I wouldn't need/want all of this stuff. Hopefully someday...
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Update... Complete success!

I got my new HDMI to Component converter and it did not work as well as the one I linked to in the first post from ebay. It couldn't lock onto the video signal, but it did provide sound. I will return this.

I got my new HDMI audio extractor and it worked! I was able to get sound out of this device with it first in the chain and then get quality 240p direct video picture from the original HDMI to Component converter from ebay. So now I have perfect picture and sound and Duck Hunt works.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BI ... UTF8&psc=1

Next, I also got my Extron VSC 500 scan converter. With this device, I didn't have success on the component input of the TV. I was getting similar corrupted signal like what I was getting from the MiSTer when I turned off direct video and tried to use the scaler. However, the Extron also has S-Video output and with that, I was able to get a great 480i picture. This works with ao486 beautifully giving me a very nice 640x480 picture. I can really use any resolution I want, but that is what I have for now. This device does not work with Duck Hunt, but I don't notice any lag. It also works with Arcade games so I can rotate them and have the right aspect ratio when combined with the MiSTer scaler. It is interlaced, but looks very similar to a VGA CRT monitor (the scanlines are basically gone at 480i when playing PC games compared to console games with direct video 240p). The Extron's sizing and centering features are very nice also allowing me to not have overscan issues.

To switch between the two above, I have two Mister.ini files (one is _alt). I have two HDMI cables near the MiSTer that I switch back and forth. One goes to the component input on my TV through the converter. The other goes through the Extron to the S-Video on my TV. Before switching the HDMI cable, I change the Mister.ini to the appropriate one, then reset and switch the cable and the input on the TV. I also have a nice subwoofer hooked up to the audio output on the TV so I have nice sound coming out of the TV speakers and the subwoofer.

Thanks paulbnl for all of your help!
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Just an update, I purchased one of these to try instead of the Extron VSC 500 and the image is definitely improved: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V2 ... UTF8&psc=1 I have to use the MiSTer scaler with it and I currently have it set to 1024x768 with a vscale border of 30 to get rid of the overscan. It has very little flicker and the image looks pretty great! I also bought an HDMI switch https://www.amazon.com/BENFEI-Switcher- ... B0895J89FB and it allows me to press a button to switch between my HDMI to Component adapter for direct video (for 240p consoles) and my HDMI to Svideo adapter for scaling everything to 480i (for ao486 and vertical arcade games). I just push the button and change inputs on my TV and change Mister INI files to an alternate and I am good to go.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by jrronimo »

Hey thorr, what's your mister.ini for the cable that goes to the component input on your TV?
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

jrronimo wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:10 am Hey thorr, what's your mister.ini for the cable that goes to the component input on your TV?
Hi jrronimo, these are the relevant parts and most of this is not even used because it is direct video and the scaler is disabled. The component inputs on my TV are used with the HDMI to Component adapter I got on ebay for direct video 240p inline with the HDMI audio extractor because the audio doesn't work for me with the ebay device. I use my SVideo input with the other device from Amazon late in the thread for 480i in conjunction with the MiSTer scaler to display non-direct_video/non-240p things.


[MiSTer]
direct_video=1 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core). Affects both VGA and HDMI output ports.
hdmi_limited=1 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
vsync_adjust=0 ; not sure if this is only in use when direct_video=0
ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output. Not sure if this affects HDMI port or not.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output. Not sure if this is only for the VGA IO board.
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output. Only used by the VGA IO board.
video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 ; Menu timings on direct_video=1
refresh_min=57
refresh_max=62
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
fb_size=0 ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1 ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
dvi_mode=0 ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by jrronimo »

Thanks so much! I've been trying to do Component via an IO Board and running into crazy timing issues in some cores (Genesis, SNES, some others) and every bit of data helps. :)
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

In this case, I am not using the IO board, and I am using direct video, so it doesn't apply to your situation as far as I know. What you can do however is buy the HDMI to component adapter from ebay in the first post and see if it works for you. The audio might not, but that is why I also bought the HDMI audio extractor to put inline first in the chain.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Today I was able to use the MiSTer scaler with my 240p capable HDMI to component converter from ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-to-5RCA-R ... 4127034242

The picture was not interlaced, had no flicker and looked fantastic. I used it with ao486 and rotated arcade cores. Here are my alternate INI settings:

[MiSTer]

direct_video=0
forced_scandoubler=1 ; I don't think this was used
hdmi_limited=2 ; I probably should have used 1 (16..235)
vsync_adjust=2
ypbpr=0
composite_sync=1
vga_scaler=1 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output. Only used by the VGA IO board.
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
vscale_border=5 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
video_mode= 640, 54, 60,112,240, 4, 1, 20, 13640

Strangely, tonight I tried it again and my TV will no longer sync to this. It was working all day with no problem. Not going through the MiSTer scaler and just using direct_video=1 works fine. I have no idea why the MiSTer scaler works and works and works, then hours later it doesn't work anymore.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Update: Today I received this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-Tech-Digital ... 4222036088

It works perfectly with sound and picture (after adjusting the MiSTer.ini file) for both native direct_video cores and also with the MiSTer scaler so I can use it at 640x240p with the above timing signals in the previous post. I may adjust these further for this new device. I use the scaler for ao486 and rotated arcade cores. It looks absolutely beautiful.

At first I had a slowly scrolling picture with direct_video native core timings. I set it to composite_sync=0 and this fixed it. No issues with the scaler enabled with the setting at 1 or 0.

Side note: Now I no longer have two devices to get this working and everything is running to one component input. This freed up my S-Video port which is now home to my GameCube so I can play Rogue Squadron II, Bounty Hunter, various 3D Zelda games and other great games with zero lag. It looks gorgeous.

Conclusion: Anyone wanting to use a CRT TV should try the above device. No analog IO board is required and the picture is perfect and it works with all MiSTer cores as far as I know with two INI's (one with the scaler and one with native timings).
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by akeley »

thorr wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:30 am Conclusion: Anyone wanting to use a CRT TV should try the above device. No analog IO board is required and the picture is perfect
Does this mean ao486 core (and everything else) is represented 1:1?
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

Yes, for lower resolution classic games, it is perfect after further adjusting my TV's service menu for sizing and centering with direct video, and then adjusting the scaler ini video timings to try to make it fit the same sizing and centering, and using integer scaling with no border, and then adjusting the TV service menu sizing again so the Dos text fits on the screen. Dos text is not one to one because the resolution is too high but it still is readable and looks decent. Game text looks perfect and the carpet in the piano room in Colonel's bequest is a perfect checker board with every other pixel on and off, instead of some rows having lines when it is not one to one. There are sometimes black bars on the top and bottom with cores but this is because there are less than 240 lines in many cases. My scaler timings are 1280×240 with integer scaling and no border. It looks great in ao486. In rotated vertical arcade games, it is a bit too skinny even in wide mode, so I will probably make another lower horizontal resolution video timings ini for those, and try it with ao486 and see how it looks. If it is just as good, I could use just the one ini for scaled video. If not, I would have two.
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Re: Direct Video HDMI to Component CRT 480i TV

Unread post by thorr »

http://imgur.com/a/Er8AeQt

Here are some photos. As always, it looks way better in person. All but the NES Popeye photos are using the MiSTer scaler. The NES is using direct_video.

I am using 640x240 for all of these with these timings:
video_mode= 640, 76, 60,118 ,240, 4, 1, 20, 14200

These are my timings for 1280x240 (not in the photos):
video_mode= 1280, 170, 140,244,240, 2, 0, 22, 29020

I don't see any difference between the two, so unless I need higher than 640 horizontal resolution, I will just use the 640x240 settings. Both look excellent. If the vertical resolution is 240 or less, it is 1 to 1 scaling. If it is greater than 240, then some clipping of horizontal lines can/will occur. Using various scaling filters helps in this case.
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