Can't get analog output to work

Discussion about displays and related hardware including MiSTer filters and video settings.
heinz
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:07 pm

Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by heinz »

Hello community.
I bought an MiSTer Ultimate (https://ultimatemister.com/product/ultimate-mister/) and a MiSTer VGA to RGB Scart Cable (https://ultimatemister.com/product/rgb-scart-cable/).
Via HDMI everything works fine, but I can't get the analog out to work with my B&O MX 6000 TV.
The "best result" so far is that i get an very very dark image. I have to turn the lights of to see that there is actual an image. Also seems black and white. The audio is ok.

Did i purchase the wrong cable?
Some ideas?

My mister.ini:

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=0          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig. 
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0           ; Display OSD menu rotated,  0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90�), 2 - rotate left (-90�)                  

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;12 - 1920x1440@60
;13 - 2048x1536@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=0

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=10

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems. 
vsync_adjust=2

; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or 
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
video_mode_ntsc=0
video_mode_pal=7

; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6

; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0x04D8
jamma_pid=0xF3AD

; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick 
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0

; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0

; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1

chimaera
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by chimaera »

If you have a PAL CRT, then you probably need to enable 5V on VGA out to set the TV in RGB mode.
See download/file.php?id=132 . The red jumper close to VGA. Set one pin in the middle and the other on 5V.
Double check that the cable and PAL TV supports it though.

I have not seen schematics on that cable so you have to ask the seller if it connects the proper 5V line.

Config seems ok.

Another source of error can be that the scart input on the TV does not support RGB. But that usually results in a B/W picture. If thats the case, try to change TV scart input.
heinz
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:07 pm

Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by heinz »

Thanks for your reply.
Indeed I'm using a PAL-CRT. I enabled 5V on VGA but unfortunately nothing changes. With SOG on, the picture is very very dark and with SOG off the picture ist completely black.
I also tried the second SCART-Input but with the same result.
I have not seen schematics on that cable so you have to ask the seller if it connects the proper 5V line.
I'll do this next.
chimaera
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by chimaera »

I have yet to find a verified correctly wired VGA HD15 to RGB SCART PAL cable for the MiSTer. If you find one, please do tell.

I tried the AnalogueNT mini noir RGB cable, but is not suitable for the MiSTer, according to the seller. The picture are unstable and switches between good color and oversaturated, Mostly oversaturated.
akeley
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by akeley »

I'm pretty sure the cable from OP (ultimatemister.com) is properly wired. I can't imagine they would sell an inappropriate cable.

Myself, I'm using a MiST cable from Lotharek's shop and it works fine. The problem is, I'm also using Direct Video so according to Wiki I should put a 470Ohm resistor there, and my cable doesn't have one, suppose OPs neither. But it's only needed for DV, not I/O.

Wiki links to Retro Access shop, there's a cable with this resistor already included: https://retro-access.com/products/miste ... 1000&_ss=r

Bit pricey thou.

@heinz: did you try any other 240p source on this TV?
heinz
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by heinz »

akeley wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:25 pm @heinz: did you try any other 240p source on this TV?
Yes I'm using several systems (NES, SNES, N64,...) on this TV without problems but via composite.
Systems -> composite-switch -> SCART-Adapter -> TV.
chimaera
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by chimaera »

I cant find any info if https://retro-access.com/products/miste ... 1000&_ss=r truly have pin 9 from VGA HD15 connector wired correctly to PAL SCART for 5V RGB enable signal. I couldnt find an email either.

Ive mailed Lotharek and asked the question regarding his cable.

I'll get back when I get an reply.

Most cable i have found the schematics for has not been PAL compatible, e.g. pin9 not wired.
chimaera
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by chimaera »

According to Lotharek his cable are correctly wired.

Another thing to try Heinz, is see if your TV has a manual RGB mode enable om the controller.
Beeble
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by Beeble »

Have the same issue with a cable that arrived today, picture is super dark, probably only black/white.

Tried on 2 TV which work fine otherwise with PAL and NTSC Setups. I also know it works with my MiSTer, I borrowed a cable from a friend once.
JamesfromDFW
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by JamesfromDFW »

what if you have a NTSC monitor? what settings should be?
Beeble
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by Beeble »

JamesfromDFW wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:45 pm what if you have a NTSC monitor? what settings should be?
The mister.ini heinz posted above should work on NTSC out of the box.
akeley
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by akeley »

Could be that some CRTs struggle with this kind of output and behave like that. Similar to the issue I described in this thread in regard to colour troubles on some Trinitron models.
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aberu
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by aberu »

I would look at the service manual for that TV (some info here that might help - https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... enu_sw_20/), get into the service menu (especially if it's one of their newer ones, like 1998-2002), and see if any of your values in there are way off from what the defaults are typically supposed to be. I have gotten used CRTs were people thought they were being clever messing with the default values, but a lot of their changes kinda made everything worse in terms of brightness and color representation.
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BasketSnake
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by BasketSnake »

Did you find a proper cable? Ever get this working? I've had the same issue myself. Tried.... everything. Neither the cable from ultimatemister or amiga-store works and they don't work with the analogue nt dac either.
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akzkaj
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by akzkaj »

Just got a cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk which was recommended on RetroRGB and have exactly the same problem with a very dark picture on a MX 8000.
Sad to see this was never resolved, plenty of B&O around here in Europe.

https://www.retrorgb.com/beware-of-mist ... ables.html
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ana ... packapunch


Edit:

Just tested on a newer Biovision 7 widescreen crt and still the same extreme dark picture. Guess B&O just have terrible compatability with the Mister :(
MiSTer_Kirk
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by MiSTer_Kirk »

If you're in the UK, then this is what I use for my Mister - VGA to SCART.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114489119197 ... 2749.l2649

You'll need your own VGA male-to-male cable, and a fully wired SCART cable.
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akzkaj
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by akzkaj »

Thanks for reply! Isn't the cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk supposed todo the exact same thing as that board? i´m confused :)

But just finished testing on an old Samsung LED TV that had scart input and same dark image, so nothing todo with B&O it seems.
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by MiSTer_Kirk »

akzkaj wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:52 pm Thanks for reply! Isn't the cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk supposed todo the exact same thing as that board? i´m confused :)

But just finished testing on an old Samsung LED TV that had scart input and same dark image, so nothing todo with B&O it seems.
I have never trusted that cable, especially after hearing many problems similar to yours, across the internet, and before I got my Mister.
Someone on reddit sent me a link to that eBay listing, and I got that instead of a cable. Luckily, I already had a vga to vga cable, and a fully wired SCART cable, and everything just worked.
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Re: Can't get analog output to work

Unread post by akzkaj »

Well... Apparently my I/O board had no pins or jumper in the VGA PWR like on this picture. So signal did not get 3.3v nor 5v :stuck_out_tongue: Had a friend solder some in and all working!
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