Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Showcase builds, discuss cases, embedding MiSTer into existing computer cases.
city909
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by city909 »

Your endeavours are admirable, but with the existence of a ton of now very good Chinese handhelds running android emulators then I have to ask - whats the point?

Can you really tell the difference between emulation on the 8/16bit machines and Mister on a small lcd screen?

Even ps1 emulation is pretty good on these things, a system Mister cant yet do.

Checkout the Anbernic RG351 - its like £130
Duffygag
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by Duffygag »

I couldn't be more happy with a Mister (having 2) and I would have paid handsomely for a portable one, but with the the launch of the Steam deck I wouldn't want anything else portable to be honest... Also completely killed my interest for the Analogue product.
dot-bob
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by dot-bob »

city909 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:14 am Your endeavours are admirable, but with the existence of a ton of now very good Chinese handhelds running android emulators then I have to ask - whats the point?

Can you really tell the difference between emulation on the 8/16bit machines and Mister on a small lcd screen?

Even ps1 emulation is pretty good on these things, a system Mister cant yet do.

Checkout the Anbernic RG351 - its like £130
The difference between hardware recreation in a FPGA and software emulation is a bit off topic of this thread. This is also the first time hearing the screen size argument for software emulation over hardware recreation on a FPGA being most cores run at low resolutions, you would think it would be the other way around. There are numerous threads that discuss this if you are not familiar with it.

For casual gamers a cheap software emulation handheld would work fine for their only retro gaming platform. For others like myself we like to have options. For me I like the devices I use just work and provide the best experience for game I choose. For some it is an FPGA for others software emulators.
dot-bob
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by dot-bob »

I thought I would post an update... I have been experimenting with different ideas trying to come up with a good options to build a mister handheld. The biggest issue with making a handheld is the display. I haven't found an ideal display but I have found a couple good ones.

I currently have two proof of concept handhelds to try out ideas. I have nicknamed this project/handheld the MiSTer shift. One uses a 7" IPS panel 1024x600 display with 2-3ms lag (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S51QDTG), and the second uses a 5" 960x544 AMOLED (https://www.waveshare.com/wiki/5inch_HDMI_AMOLED) due to the resolution it is probably a left over vita display. I have tried some of the 1080p AMOLED displays and they look awesome but are native in a portrait mode so rotating the display causes lag and most chips that rotate cause 30ms+ or more lag.

The second issue comes down to controls. I have tried a couple of 3d printed control pad layouts using various gamepad buttons and membranes. I still haven't found a feel I am satisfied with yet. Currently I am experimenting with a couple off the shelf options which have been ok.

I have been very busy at work with new products and respining PCBs of older products to use newer hardware so I haven't had much motivation to start a PCB at home. I do have a few pages of a schematics (battery/power, HDMI mirror, SNAC, VGA , System Management, Audio amp).

I did however design a low profile SDRAM module that hangs off the side of the DE-10 nano a few mm. I was bored one night so I threw it together rather quick. I needed another SDRAM module and I thought for $8 at JLCPCB if it didn't work I would just solder the chips to another board. Well it passes at 145MHz on one DE-10 nano and 141MHz on a different DE-10 nano. I also discovered that the -6T and -7T speed grades don't make any difference. Both test the exact same using the SDRAM tests.

I don't know how far I am going to go with this project. Ideally it would be nice to have a community supported design. For the time being I have been having a blast with the handhelds. I have them setup with syncthing so all saves automatically migrate between my console mister and two handhelds so switching between them doesn't take a second thought.
Handhelds.jpg
Memory Side View.jpg
Memory Angle.jpg
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aberu
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by aberu »

You could even use an even bigger display like the Pimoroni 8" 1024x768 display (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hdmi ... t-1024x768). I'm trying that in a revision of my MiSTer-Barcade soon... Hopefully if I can figure out some CAD.

Personally I like the ipega handheld design above the most because it could be modular, like a MiSTer in a screen combo and you can either use it plugged into the ipega or standalone.
birdybro~
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by ShockChance »

Cool project.
I was also developing a hand held version a few months ago. link here with video viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1876
Sadly my career took over the last few months so haven't have the time to pursue further. naybe if we all get together on this we might be able to pull it off. I was about 90 percent there with my design with a few successful prototypes built. although one thing that scared me at the time was the costs involved. I think it was somewhere in the 500 to 600 euro price range to build each prototype.
Anyways feel free to contact me with any questions. I worked out a lot of the electronics, custom buttons etc. tooling required etc.
cyber001
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by cyber001 »

dot-bob wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:36 am A vendor stopped by work and dropped off a few displays for me to try out... It's a bit overkill and I haven't measured the display lag of the provided hdmi to mipi board but here are some pics of MiSTer with the 1440x1600 display. 1440x1600 Display.jpg 1440x1600 Mario.jpg
can you share your settings to make it work? i got the exact thing but can't have a display properly from mister. thanks
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Sorgelig
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by Sorgelig »

Handheld device isn't only size but usage scenario. Overall, without lengthy description, there is no point to use FPGA in small handheld device.
Anbernic RG351 already does great job.
FPGA is for big screen at home.
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

People just got their Analogue Pockets and are enjoying it greatly, including those inundated with those Chinese handheld emulators. How can you say there is no use scenario here?

I don't know that DE-10 nano will ever be practical for handhelds, but I also don't understand why people think it is OK to keep dumping on the very concept in this research thread. If such a thing ever becomes viable I guarantee there will be those who use it. It does not have to be for everyone. Maybe this is only on the same level as people hacking together portable Wii but its still a neat thing if you can do it.
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by cmstar0 »

I personally, would LOVE a MiSTer handheld. I also would gladly pay the earlier estimated $500 for it.

Using a Switch style form factor makes sense as there is a plethora of controllers and accessories that could be adapted. Also, there are several adapters that allow you to attach the controllers in vertical or horizontal orientation.

Please continue work on this. I'm happy to help fund through patreon.
dot-bob
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by dot-bob »

Things are moving but slow. I have been busy at work and do a couple PCBs a month so I really don't feel too motivated to do it at home, I would rather be playing games. Money is not an issue so a patreon is not needed.

I have the start of a schematic with basic battery management circuit, a DE-10 Nano footprint utilizing all connectors, and a start of a HDMI splitter to mirror video to external display. I still haven't found what I would call a "good" display for a MiSTer portable. Perhaps when the switch OLED panel is generally available. The few I have tested are too small or just ok. The 5" is a bit small and the odd ball vita resolution doesn't scale well. The 7" is large but 1024x600 and scales a bit strange and has bad black levels. And the 3.5 1440x1600 (headset display) like in the Pocket is small and is native in a portrait format, so it will add lag to rotate (makes me wonder what the pocket does).

Controls are also another pain requiring numerous prototypes to get them to feel right. This is why I am leaning towards either integrating switch or mobile bluetooth or USB controllers. You know what you are getting out of the box with these. I may need to implement the joycon protocol with a microcontroller to be used with the hardware rails to bring the lag down but even then might still be high.
slikvik
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by slikvik »

dot-bob wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:36 am A vendor stopped by work and dropped off a few displays for me to try out... It's a bit overkill and I haven't measured the display lag of the provided hdmi to mipi board but here are some pics of MiSTer with the 1440x1600 display. 1440x1600 Display.jpg 1440x1600 Mario.jpg
Hey. I don't know if you've now seen the reviews of the Analogue Pocket (especially Digital Foundry) but they are raving about that 1440x1600 display because it scales perfectly to the Gameboy. It's also high enough res to apply a decent Gameboy/GBC/Gamegear filter. Given the Pocket is now imposible to get unless you want to pay £1000 on eBay, it's starting to make the MiSTer with this screen seem very attractive!

I'm going to give it a go myself at some point but I was wondering if you could revisit this screen with a Gameboy game running and the screen rotated correctly, just to see what it's like.

Excerpt to the review:
DpGo4e1.png
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gestalt
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by gestalt »

I was looking at these DMG controller pcbs on tindie. How would one connect this to the de-10 nano? Is there some kind of usb chip that the MiSTer would recognize?

https://www.tindie.com/products/tinkerb ... oller-pcb/

https://www.tindie.com/products/tinkerb ... -boy-zero/
slikvik
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by slikvik »

gestalt wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:35 pm I was looking at these DMG controller pcbs on tindie. How would one connect this to the de-10 nano? Is there some kind of usb chip that the MiSTer would recognize?

https://www.tindie.com/products/tinkerb ... oller-pcb/

https://www.tindie.com/products/tinkerb ... -boy-zero/
Can't speak specifically for the de-10 but if you wanted it to be a hid compliant USB device you'd program an atmega:
https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/how-to-progra ... h-arduino/
jca
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by jca »

I guess something based on the Daemonbite controller would do (Arduino Pro Micro).
mastershakelock
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Re: Ok let's talk seriously about a MiSTer handheld...

Unread post by mastershakelock »

I was recently thinking about my old Nvidia Shield portable that I enjoyed so much 8 years back, doesn't get much love these days. I wonder how difficult it would be to remove the Shields internals replace with a de10-nano and connect to the display. The dimensions seem somewhat comparable.

nvd-jpg.jpg
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