MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Showcase builds, discuss cases, embedding MiSTer into existing computer cases.
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multisystem
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by multisystem »

Neil from RMCRetro had added an overview video all about the MiSTer Multisystem over on his YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIz8WY6zLE

User testing has been going well and we are producing another batch with the tweaks and fixes for production.

Please feel free to post any questions here or on the YouTube video comments, we will aim to answer them as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Richard.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by pomegran »

Looks great. Will the £141 include the case? If not, how much extra will this be?
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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multisystem wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:15 pm Please feel free to post any questions here or on the YouTube video comments, we will aim to answer them as soon as possible.
Hi. Will the analog audio out be fed by a proper DAC (that takes the data from the same source as the optical out)?
I am asking because the audio out on the MiSTer IO addon board has a very noisy output and this could be much improved.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by bazza_12 »

did ask earlier but would a mic socket be possible to fit.. to save games out to tape or something
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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mapf wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:06 pm
multisystem wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:15 pm Please feel free to post any questions here or on the YouTube video comments, we will aim to answer them as soon as possible.
Hi. Will the analog audio out be fed by a proper DAC (that takes the data from the same source as the optical out)?
I am asking because the audio out on the MiSTer IO addon board has a very noisy output and this could be much improved.
The Multisystem has the standard analogue Audio out 3.5mm jack, and also the Digital TOSlink optical. We also have all the audio and video on the expansion header so that would be where a digital to DAC output could be made as a module if the community wants that option.

We have discussed various expansion modules, some could include a higher quality DAC, if anyone has any preference here do let us know -

Ideas were -
Use a DAC on the JAMMA expansion
Or have a combined MIDI interface and DAC for higher quality analogue audio
Or combine another desired video output like s-video and also include the option for a DAC
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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bazza_12 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:17 pm did ask earlier but would a mic socket be possible to fit.. to save games out to tape or something
The Multisystem has a 3.5mm jack input for audio in / Analogue 0 and 1 channels - so this is used to et tape games into the system or as an analogur controller etc.

The Analogue out could in theory 'save to tape' but I'm not expecting support in the cores for that any time soon.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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pomegran wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:17 pm Looks great. Will the £141 include the case? If not, how much extra will this be?
No, it's a print your own case (files will be supplied), or Neil is planning to have case options available to buy etc.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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Hi Everyone,

We have a number of questions relating to contribution of sales profit back to the original creators / MiSTer Project / team etc. and general questions about open source etc.

Really happy to address this head on and open it up for further discussion (we are all standing on the shoulders of giants) -

We are not selling an existing open source hardware design. We have invested in new designs for MiSTer and have sunk costs for doing this, that’s fine and part of any new product development, just pointing out that our focus is to invest in the wider MiSTer project.

When/if we get to a break-even point then we could do a number of different things not limited to the following –
  • Use any profit to design more interesting new hardware for MiSTer. – To be honest this is the initial preference as it’s the plan to support the community long-term and develop new hardware.
  • Contribute some proportion of profit to the MiSTer project or/and individual creators or as part of a wider community funded ongoing development program for new hardware / software - This is similar to how the RepRap (open source 3D printer) project generated a design fund for ongoing research and development.
  • Release the design as open source, that may or may not be a good thing, no strong view either way, but it becomes harder to justify giving away profits as it’s incredibly doubtful anyone just selling the board would do the same to us or anyone else. – We would much rather see people evolve the design further and sell that instead, that’s how open source hardware should work.
In short, we hope that in time we can be seen as a valued contributor to the MiSTer project, and we wish to continue to invest in what the community wants developed as new hardware and help generate ways to make it easier for more people to get involved. Please at least give us the chance to break even and make some cool products for people to enjoy.

The 3D print files will be released as soon as possible on a very usable open source license, not restricting use, do whatever you like with them etc.

And please don’t see these as and/or options, we can do multiple things such as release designs as open source and still do other things or contribute in various ways, it just gets more complicated. None of this is set in stone, we have not even released the product yet, so happy to keep the discussion ongoing and see where this takes us.

I hope that helps.

Richard.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by masterofninja »

multisystem wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:34 pm And also an update on the development side -

The tweaks, fixes and production changes for manufacturing are all going well. We plan to have another batch built to the final production design during August after feedback from testers.

We also started sending out to beta test units to people in the UK, USA and Canada (* sorry no European / Japan testers quite yet)...
Will there be an option to have a case style or colour combination that is "Japanese Super Famicom" style? I was planning to gut a SNES and fit a MISTer + add-ons into it, but this seems like a better option when comparing time v money to do this.

Also would not open source your PCB design - you just know what will happen if you do that, and you'll basically lose all of your investment.

Another question: is the RAM going to be the "corrected" type that will work better with the Jotego cores?
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by mr-box »

question will this work with 2 ram modules or does this become junk if that happens
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by multisystem »

Pilot production all went well, all tested and no problems in the build process.

Multisystem_Pilot_Production_batch3.jpg

Small batch pilot production costs a small fortune, but proves that you can ramp up to volume manufacturing.

Multisystem_Pilot_Production_batch2.jpg

We have now frozen the design as no further design for manufacture changes need to be made.

Multisystem_Pilot_Production_batch1.jpg

The first volume batch is now being made.


The enclosure design has also had a few tweaks after all the great community feedback (Thank you all). I will post more about the enclosure and 3D printed files shortly.

Cheers,

Richard.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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And the 3D print files for the enclosure design are now all uploaded - https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/75 ... e-3d-print

It has a detailed 31 page PDF document for anyone who wants to print off a set or use it for any reason.


Open Source CC-BY-SA (Creative commons, Attribution, Share alike). Full commercial use allowed, so if anyone wants to print the enclosure and sell it, that's totally okay and encouraged !

CASE_A_with_Dust_cover.jpg
Original design (Above - Case 'A')

CASE_B_with_Dust_cover.jpg
Alternative design for SCART out the back and internal 2.5" SDD / M2 SSD
Enclosure_B_with_INTERNAL_SCART.jpg
Case_LID_B_With_2_5_SSD_DRIVE.jpg
Enclosure_B_INTERNAL_NGFF_M2_SSD_Mount.jpg
Enclosure_B_INTERNAL_NGFF_M2_SSD_Mounted.jpg


Do let me know what you think about the two different case options (I listened to the feedback on the SCART and made an alternative design for you).


Thanks,

Richard.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by bazza_12 »

i must admit I prefer the design with the scart moved to the back instead of on top.. looks a lot better now.. IMO
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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CASE_B_with_Dust_cover.jpg (291.72 KiB) Viewed 130 times has my favor.
Also, 2,5" SSD is very nice.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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How is the air flow (cooling) with case B?
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by peterkozmd »

Any idea how much the all in one bundle will cost in advance? want to start setting aside because I don't imagine it'll be cheap with all the addons etc
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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ash2fpga wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:07 pm How is the air flow (cooling) with case B?
It's good and will also cool any SDD / HDD / storage that's fitted to the CASE B design. The fan cooling in general is much more than required as the DE10 is also still fitted with heatsink, I tend to always run the fan at 3.3v so it's totally silent. You could probably even use a regular fan running at 3.3v and it would also be almost silent. That said, the Noctua is a nice fan and should last a very long time in this configuration, well worth the extra money.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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peterkozmd wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:45 pm Any idea how much the all in one bundle will cost in advance? want to start setting aside because I don't imagine it'll be cheap with all the addons etc
Neil is adding a pre-order page up on his website rmcretro.store in the next few weeks, that should list all the options for Multisystem + enclosure + Meanwell PSU etc.

The price for the Multisystem I/O motherboard is £141.66 (+UK VAT) - that comes with the Ethernet patch and Micro USB cables - you just to add a DE10-Nano and it's ready to go.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by crabfists »

I prefer case B. Much more tidy. :)

Loving what I have seen of the Multisystem so far! I will be getting one.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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crabfists wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 am I prefer case B. Much more tidy. :)

Loving what I have seen of the Multisystem so far! I will be getting one.
Thank you, I can understand why case B is a tidier option, it's quite easy to internally route the SCART cable and for mass storage options. I still like the original case too.

We have had so much interest in the enclosure, it's going to be interesting to see how many people want to order the Multisystem with a case. I have a feeling there is a great opportunity for people to sell the enclosure to the community, if anyone reading has a 3D printer/s sitting idle you may want to consider this. It's welcome and encouraged.

I hope we will also see more designers making compatible Multisystem enclosures now that the 3D design is released.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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Slipard wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 am Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?
That's a great question, Initially the enclosure will need to be 3D printed, it's just the most sensible option until we can see if a tooled design is even a viable thing to do. Tooling would be quite expensive for an enclosure of this size and that also means it's fixed (we would have to decide on Option A or B for tooling). With 3D printing you can at least make changes or improvements without needing to change tooling.

It would be great to hear if people are happy with a 3D printed enclosure, I think it looks quite good in a matte finish, it's strong and I have tuned the quality for best print time/cost so it should be a viable option to print/sell without costing too much.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by peterkozmd »

Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?

As far as 3d printed case? ehh..would much prefer they offer something more polished as a case instead of the coarse ugly looking 3d one personally maybe metal or acrylic
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by german_user »

I noticed that the final board design is missing the two 10 pin headers next to the expansion port. Are these signals now lost, or have they been fully integrated into the slot?
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by german_user »

peterkozmd wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:11 pm Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?
Since the DE-10 Nano alone has now become a good 20% more expensive, it is better to count on 400 than 300 Dolloar. In my opinion, however, it makes no sense to purchase the DE10 there, it should actually be cheaper in the USA.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

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german_user wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:16 pm I noticed that the final board design is missing the two 10 pin headers next to the expansion port. Are these signals now lost, or have they been fully integrated into the slot?
Yes, these were Low voltage versions of the High voltage SNAC and user ports, they have now been integrated into the expansion slot and you just have a physical switch to select if it's running the low voltage or high voltage expansion - it can also detect this switch position on the expansion slot so the software / core can know what's connected and how it should be used etc. It's also less likely to cause problems if it's all just the edge slot rather than the 10 pin headers, they would have been bent or shorted out at some point.

Short answer, they are not lost, just integrated and we also added all the spare I/O from the DE10-nano, even all the spare arduino and analogue pins that are not currently used on the MiSTer stack design, so future expansion can get quite interesting if the community and core dev's want to support it.

Cheers,

Richard.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by german_user »

Thank you very much for the detailed answer, then I am reassured.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by multisystem »

german_user wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:29 pm
peterkozmd wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:11 pm Yeah still waiting for the final price added up with board,power supply,case plus nano and i assume the extra addon modules. So literally everything included out the box. Really eager to know how much the complete cost will be for everything included. Anyone have any idea the total damage estimate for everything? 300? or upwards of 400 usd?
Since the DE-10 Nano alone has now become a good 20% more expensive, it is better to count on 400 than 300 Dolloar. In my opinion, however, it makes no sense to purchase the DE10 there, it should actually be cheaper in the USA.
Yes, exactly. The DE10-nano will be lower cost in the US. They are imported into the UK / Europe and seem to have a higher cost here because of that. You can't get a 'Volume discount' unless you buy a really big number of them, the price the big distributors have it listed is a really good buy price for the DE10-Nano as it's also subsidised by Intel for the educational / university sector.

Buy your DE10-Nano (or a spare) as soon as you can. At some point the component supply will become more limited and the lead time for manufacture is likely to extend, even for the big US distributors.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by peterkozmd »

Here's an amazon link i think i'll order from https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B89YHSB/
Is this their any cheaper places to get this? also with this and the mister system i should be set right? Sorry new to this. Thanks for the help.
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Re: MiSTer Multisystem - All-in-One System

Unread post by aberu »

multisystem wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:51 am
Slipard wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:32 am Question: maybe is it an overlook from me, but I didn't see if the case, when ordered from the Multisystem site, was 3D printed or factory molded; which one is it?
That's a great question, Initially the enclosure will need to be 3D printed, it's just the most sensible option until we can see if a tooled design is even a viable thing to do. Tooling would be quite expensive for an enclosure of this size and that also means it's fixed (we would have to decide on Option A or B for tooling). With 3D printing you can at least make changes or improvements without needing to change tooling.

It would be great to hear if people are happy with a 3D printed enclosure, I think it looks quite good in a matte finish, it's strong and I have tuned the quality for best print time/cost so it should be a viable option to print/sell without costing too much.
In my opinion, some aspects of the design would unnecessarily increase tooling costs, I've reviewed the STL's a bit for fun... It looks like you would need a couple slides to accommodate the vents and openings from multiple angles, but I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, just work in plastics and see it from sort of that perspective. Was the 3d printable case designed with injection molding in mind?
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