HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Discussion about displays and related hardware including MiSTer filters and video settings.
User avatar
eightbit
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:05 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by eightbit »

So this weekend I scored a pretty nice working 32inch JVC CRT TV circa 2003. It has component connections which I have tested with a component ready DVD player and the picture looks great.

Now time to get my MiSTer to it. I am aware of the ini settings that will need to be changed, not a problem. But I am curious as to what adapter or cable to buy. I have the digital IO board that does NOT have the VGA port, so I must use the DE10-NANO's HDMI for direct video....which I hear is not a problem.

I was looking at this adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PMGBVV8/

Will this work? Or does anyone have another recommendation that they have tested working fine for HDMI to Component to an old TV?

Any help is appreciated!
akeley
Top Contributor
Posts: 1303
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 pm
Has thanked: 416 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by akeley »

Wiki says to use HDMI-VGA converter, not HDMI-Component. Maybe it will work, but I personally wouldn't risk it.

When looking for my HDMI-VGA DAC I typed in the search the name of the recommended chip - AG6200...just to be on the safe side.

Then you'll need an appropriately modded cable, check the wiki for details.
amadama
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by amadama »

I use the I/O board for component output but on a whim I tried out the following HDMI to Component adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082HT11MH

It displays a picture but the colors are off, kind of greenish. With ypbpr settings on ini to 0, it gives better colors but I get a rolling picture.
User avatar
Sigismond0
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 2:21 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

Have you tried flipping the SOG switch?
amadama
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by amadama »

Sigismond0 wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:14 pm Have you tried flipping the SOG switch?
The SOG switch is for the I/O board. I was testing direct_video via the HDMI output.
User avatar
Sigismond0
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 2:21 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Sigismond0 »

Gotcha. Probably the same issue though. When using a VGA adapter, you have to do a mod to the adapter to enable SoG through it, so you might need to do something similar for the component cable.
User avatar
eightbit
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:05 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by eightbit »

I went ahead and ordered that adapter I linked in the beginning of this thread and it is supposed to arrive tomorrow. No skin off my nose if it does not work as I can always return it. I am just curious to see if it actually works. I will update with my results.


EDIT: And, it didn't work ;) I didn't expect it to and have the Rankie HDMI to VGA on order along with VGA to component cable, but I was curious and wanted to see what happens. Well, now we all know ;)
amadama
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by amadama »

Which component cable did you order?
User avatar
eightbit
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:05 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by eightbit »

amadama wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:07 am Which component cable did you order?

I ordered this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZMV7RL2/

and this (as a comment in the reviews from someone specifically called out that it worked with the MiSTer....more people should do that!):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3WVV99/


I am fairly certain this combo will work as I have seen many reported that the Rankie adapter is compatible. I spent a lot of time in forum threads before ordering these as I want to make sure I get it right and move on with using this on a CRT. Pretty excited about that!
amadama
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by amadama »

I have those same exact items for my Mister. The HDMI to VGA adapter I use for hooking up to a Dell 2001fp monitor and the cable I use for my I/O board to go to a Component input on a TV. Hope you can get the combination to work for HDMI-Component.
User avatar
ioev
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by ioev »

I still think it would be great if the Analogue DAC signal spec was opened up so that other devices (MiSTer?) could support it.
GusCrt
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:57 am

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by GusCrt »

Very interesting topic. Anyone knows why the hdmi to vga works and for component doesn't? I am just looking for a component output for my crt :/ so sad that zero lag hdmi2component doesnt work, my dream its a 240p signal with conponent cable haha im knew to the mister system, someone knows how to output component signal with no lag?
thorr
Top Contributor
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 252 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by thorr »

GusCrt wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:01 am Very interesting topic. Anyone knows why the hdmi to vga works and for component doesn't? I am just looking for a component output for my crt :/ so sad that zero lag hdmi2component doesnt work, my dream its a 240p signal with conponent cable haha im knew to the mister system, someone knows how to output component signal with no lag?
This works great for me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224222036088
Yodasghost
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:08 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Yodasghost »

thorr wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:11 am This works great for me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224222036088
Do you know if this adds any lag on the vga or component?
thorr
Top Contributor
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 252 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by thorr »

Yodasghost wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:44 pm
thorr wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:11 am This works great for me:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224222036088
Do you know if this adds any lag on the vga or component?
Edit: This is not the same product. They updated the ebay listing, and now this converts TO HDMI, not from HDMI (wrong direction). The original product had zero lag. It worked with Duck Hunt which is the perfect lag test.
elvis
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 9:25 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by elvis »

Mike Chi (RetroTink designer) designed this product, and open sourced it. He's not producing it commercially, but there's a few people making and selling them I think.

https://www.retrotink.com/post/vga2ntsc-released

You need to feed it 15KHz RGBHV, as it won't down scale, but obviously the MiSTer does that fine. The "VGA" portion of the name is a little misleading, as the physical plug is a DE15 connector that expects RGBHV, but it won't work with VGA spec 31KHz resolutions.

There's a SCART connector on it too.
Yodasghost
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:08 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Yodasghost »

elvis wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:23 am Mike Chi (RetroTink designer) designed this product, and open sourced it. He's not producing it commercially, but there's a few people making and selling them I think.

https://www.retrotink.com/post/vga2ntsc-released

You need to feed it 15KHz RGBHV, as it won't down scale, but obviously the MiSTer does that fine. The "VGA" portion of the name is a little misleading, as the physical plug is a DE15 connector that expects RGBHV, but it won't work with VGA spec 31KHz resolutions.

There's a SCART connector on it too.
Ah thanks,
Yeah I stumbled across this recently too I can't seem to find a seller who has them in stock at th uk atm though
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

eightbit wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:11 am
amadama wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:07 am Which component cable did you order?

I ordered this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZMV7RL2/

and this (as a comment in the reviews from someone specifically called out that it worked with the MiSTer....more people should do that!):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3WVV99/


I am fairly certain this combo will work as I have seen many reported that the Rankie adapter is compatible. I spent a lot of time in forum threads before ordering these as I want to make sure I get it right and move on with using this on a CRT. Pretty excited about that!
Did this combo work?
thorr
Top Contributor
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 537 times
Been thanked: 252 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by thorr »

I think you need to do a Sync on Green (SOG) mod in order for that to work.
FoxbatStargazer
Top Contributor
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:44 pm
Has thanked: 309 times
Been thanked: 228 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

These HDMI->VGA are likely to push out RGBHV, and those cables with VGA on one end and component on the other are mere breakout cables, they just route the color pins to the appropriate cables. Because HV sync is separate pins from the colors on VGA the breakout cable is just going to discard that sync. On mister's VGA port you can flip the SoG switch to push sync through Luma but that only applies to its own VGA port and AFAIK cannot be pushed through the HDMI output somehow.

Portta has zero-lag powered converter boxes that go both directions for HDMI and Component, if you want something cheap that will take care of sync. Just set direct_video=1 and you should be set.
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

thorr wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:16 pm I think you need to do a Sync on Green (SOG) mod in order for that to work.
That's what I'm gathering. The wiki describes the mod, but I'm not really sure how to proceed with it. I can't find any examples of it being done in practice. I can get the parts and solder it, but I'm not sure how to... arrange it?
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:23 am These HDMI->VGA are likely to push out RGBHV, and those cables with VGA on one end and component on the other are mere breakout cables, they just route the color pins to the appropriate cables. Because HV sync is separate pins from the colors on VGA the breakout cable is just going to discard that sync. On mister's VGA port you can flip the SoG switch to push sync through Luma but that only applies to its own VGA port and AFAIK cannot be pushed through the HDMI output somehow.

Portta has zero-lag powered converter boxes that go both directions for HDMI and Component, if you want something cheap that will take care of sync. Just set direct_video=1 and you should be set.
I have that Portta HDMI -> Component converter box and so far I haven't been able to get it to work, but maybe it's just a config thing. I'll try a few more things I guess.

Long story short, I have a mister with digital io board because I never thought I'd get my hands on a CRT and then of course 2 months later I get the chance to pick up a JVC AV-27230 w/ component input in great condition for cheap and in my neighbourhood. I thought great, I'll just use direct video out, but that's apparently not as straightforward for component. So far the Portta HDMI to component didn't work, but I only got it and the CRT yesterday. Today the Portta HDMI to VGA adapter and a VGA to component cable has arrived, but that needs the mod apparently. I decided to just throw the kitchen sink at it and I have a analog i/o board arriving tomorrow as well. So one way or another I'll have something displaying on it soon enough.

Here's what I'm working with so far for anyone else that comes along in future. I'll update with what eventually works.

VGA to component cable: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001T6OHNU/
Portta HDMI -> VGA converter: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003O55U8K/
Portta HDMI -> Component converter: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00A8FIQXA/
Component cable: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003L150CS/
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

So after a little more ini tweaking I got the Portta HDMI -> Component converter to kind of work. The main boot menu works fine, but once you load a core the screen flickers and jitters like there's a sync problem. But the colors are fine and the main menu is solid.

Here's the ini I used edited down to just the relevant video settings after looking at some of @Thorr s settings from here: viewtopic.php?p=18208#p18208

[MiSTer]
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=0 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
vscale_mode=0 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
hdmi_limited=2 ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
dvi_mode=0 ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio wont be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.
;CRT TV
video_mode=640,30,60,70,240,4,4,14,12587 ; Menu timings on direct_video=1
vsync_adjust=2 ; vsync_adjust=2 single/sub-single buffer (0-1 frame), native systems refresh, synced
refresh_min=57
refresh_max=62
video_mode_ntsc=8
video_mode_pal=9

I tried changing the VGA scaler and vsync settings but it had no effect. Any suggestions on what to change to solve that weird flicker? Maybe it's the video_mode timings are wrong?

Now to try the HDMI -> VGA converter with the VGA -> component cable.
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

Even less luck with the HDMI -> VGA converter with the VGA -> component cable. Just a brief flash of the menu screen the first time I powered it up. Nothing after that. Slight screen flicker when the mister is turned on, but other than that, nothing. Not even a pink image. Tried the same settings as above and also with:

ypbpr=1 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.

Might just have to wait for the analog i/o board tomorrow.
FoxbatStargazer
Top Contributor
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:44 pm
Has thanked: 309 times
Been thanked: 228 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

The VGA->component breakout cable has the exact problem I warned you about, there is no sync signal passing through it, when you need sync on green/luma. Although when you get your I/O board you should be able to use it with that at least, the physical SoG switch will take care of your sync and then you just set ypbpr=1.

Not sure why the Portta isn't working for you, its possible that it can't handle the super-wide direct resolutions in those cores. I would give ao486 core a try since it has a narrower direct_video setting than most. (But to use direct-video you probably need to change in the ao486 HUD menu the refresh rate to 60hz.)
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

I'll have to look into the sync on green mod a little deeper. I still haven't found a practical example of it in action.

I'll have to do some more testing with the Portta component converter. It looks like it was going to be a slam dunk. I'll try some more settings tweaks and see if any core will work with it without the rolling flicker.

I haven't got the ao486 set up yet as I have far less interest there than in the console and arcade cores, but might be worth a try as a test of your theory.
FoxbatStargazer
Top Contributor
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:44 pm
Has thanked: 309 times
Been thanked: 228 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

You could also try turning off direct_video and instead use vga_scaler and some custom video modelines on cores. Like on genesis core, try 320x240, or more likely multiples of 320 (maybe 1920x240). This way you have fine control to try and identify what is going on with the portta. If you manage to get something that syncs, set aspect ratio to full in the HUD you can play games that way too.

If you are getting a 6.1 analog I/O board the SoG switch should be built in. Its specifically for getting the sync pulse on green/luma, which is the standard for component video, however it only applies to the VGA port on the I/O board. When you connect that VGA->component breakout cable you listed, SoG will make the sync pulse travel down the green cable and get your TV picture to stop rolling.
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

Thanks. I'll try the custom video modelines. So far everything I have tried has not worked to get a stable image (outside of the menu core)

I'm not 100% sure what i/o board version will be coming. I chose the only amazon.ca seller that had next day shipping. The image shows v6.0 but who knows what will actually arrive.
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

No matter what settings I use with the HDMI to component converter the resolution always shows as 640x240. Maybe that's part of the problem with this thing.
User avatar
Phaedrus
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: HDMI to Component (for old JVC CRT TV)

Unread post by Phaedrus »

Oh my god. I feel so stupid. I didn't turn direct video off when using the HDMI>component converter. With direct video off it does seem to work.
Post Reply