Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Join other MiSTer gamers, take part in high score challenges.
User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

MiSTer Community Game Club
Like a book club, but for games supported on MiSTer

Overview of the game selection process:
  • We will then nominate games that are supported on that core in the cases where more than one game is available.
    • For cores that support only a single game, the nomination round will be skipped.
  • You can nominate up to three games per core
  • You cannot second your own nomination
  • A game needs only one other person to second the nomination to add it to the list of possible games
  • At the end of the nomination round, we will select a game from the list at random again using a script
  • Each new core selected will have a separate post topic created for it. In that topic we can nominate games and announce the selection.
  • Each game selected will also have its own post topic so we can keep the procedural part separated from the game enjoyment part.
  • There is no "end" to that game's play period. If years from now, someone new wants to play it and add their thoughts to the discussion for it, they should feel free to do so. Or if you were just a week late to the action, you didn't actually miss out.
Hopefully we can all help each other get some of these cores setup in the cases where they need more than just ROMs dropped into a directory. The use of the excellent update_all script from theypsilon will be considered standard practice in any event.

For help with coming up with games to nominate, the following two sites are a good visual guide to the games available on the platforms supported by MiSTer:

fpgafiles.com
system16.com

Why not just vote on games? Why nominate/second then use a randomizer?

The low amount of activity forums receive these days versus more popular mega-platforms like Reddit and Discord means that we will have a high likelihood of needing tie breakers with multiple rounds of voting as there simply won't be that many people casting votes. This will be slow and take a lot of time as we'd need to give each voting round a minimum of a couple of days - but more like a week - before we could move on. We wanted to keep momentum going, not get bogged down in procedure. This is also why the selected games have no rigidly-defined play period. Looser design fits forum activity better.

The idea is to get us playing games - hopefully games we wouldn't have played otherwise. It's also advantageous to the maintainers of this club if the required effort is low as it will help keep people involved and keep the whole thing going. This shouldn't be a burden, it should be fun!

The club's rules and structure are a living document. They will be changed and/or updated to reflect the needs and desires of the participating forum members. If you have any ideas for improvement or other feedback, please reply to this post.

Here is the simple code used to select random entries:

Code: Select all

function randButton() {
  const ss = SpreadsheetApp.getActive();
  const sh = ss.getActiveSheet();
  var cores = ss.getRange("A:A").getValues();
  var listlength = cores.filter(String).length;
  var randomcore = Math.floor(Math.random() * listlength) + 1;
  sh.getRange('C1').setValue(randomcore);
  SpreadsheetApp.flush();
}
Malor
Top Contributor
Posts: 860
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:50 pm
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 194 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Malor »

Out of interest, are console cores eligible? If so, the weighting is a little weird, because some cores have literally thousands of titles (GBA, PS1), and most have 100+ games, but they're only weighted as one entry.

Maybe computer and console cores should get, I dunno, maybe ten entries each, to make them more likely to come up? If we actually tried to count every possible console and computer ROM, we'd never play arcade cores, but as is, arcade cores seem likely to dominate.

I'm fine with it the way it is now, and maybe that might work better as a weekly format, because console games tend to take a great deal more time to explore. When they get picked, it's gonna take more like a month to work through some of those titles. Could be two months for one of the big RPGs, like the Final Fantasy titles.
Hetzen
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Hetzen »

I've got to agree that they will come up relatively sparsely compared to an arcade game. Maybe it could rotate between Arcade, Computer, Console each week?
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

I agree. Could we have "Arcade" as one core? Or rotate between weeks like Hetzen said.

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

I'm good with the idea of rotating between arcade, consoles and computers going forward. I agree that's a good way to balance the equation.

I added the code used for the randomizer to the top post. With that and the link to the list in the first post, it should be trivial for anyone else to recreate it if necessary. This is done through what Google is now calling Apps Scripts. You have to create it on that site (Sheets menu > Extensions > Apps Scripts), then go back to the spreadsheet and manually link it to an object (Pac-Man in our case) for it to work.
User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

It's been obvious which of the random cores people have been most excited about just looking at the number of replies and views on the posts -- the GBA post for example. I guess it's natural that popular consoles, computers and arcade platforms generate a larger response. Perhaps not that many people enjoy digging into the unfamiliar as I do.

Would it be more enjoyable if we were to open running posts for the most popular gaming platforms (SNES, MD/Genesis, Playstation, etc.) and keep selecting random games for those? Something else?

The work-around for low traffic and therefore low vote count was to make the final game selection random. That doesn't mean that the random game is going to please even a majority of participants though. In the Atari 800XL thread there were many people who mentioned the Bruce Lee game. I could imagine then that the random game coming up as Boulder Dash might be disappointing and discourage participation.

I would also like to float the idea of moving the nomination periods out to two weeks instead of one. Unfortunately there have been a couple of instances where nominations or seconds came in after the cutoff.

Please let me know what you think!
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

For me one of the cool things about the Game Club is to discover new games and systems. There's probably no way I would have taken an interest in the Atari 800XL without this thing. Now I’m semi obsessed with it. But like I've said before I will be up for pretty much any structure. If people want more popular systems that’s fine by me.

About the two week nomination period. I think the good thing with that would be to slow things down a little. Longer time to nominate and more time to play and discuss the games. I feel like I keep losing track of what games are being played at the moment. :D

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

I feel like I keep losing track of what games are being played at the moment. :D
I hear you on this. I've felt that way too, and since it does take some time to manage these posts, I have less time than I'd like to actually play these games.

I very much appreciate your ongoing participation!
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

Even though English is not my first language I'd be happy to help with the OP work.

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

I would like that! I was educated in public schools in the southeastern part of the USA, so your English is as good as mine! Or better. Probably better.

If we were to move to a two-week period and take turns with the posts we would only need to do it once a month.

Do you have a Google account? The randomizer button requires the user to be signed into the site for it to function (because that's Google's policy with running scripts).
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

PistolsAtDawn wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:32 pm I would like that! I was educated in public schools in the southeastern part of the USA, so your English is as good as mine! Or better. Probably better.

If we were to move to a two-week period and take turns with the posts we would only need to do it once a month.

Do you have a Google account? The randomizer button requires the user to be signed into the site for it to function (because that's Google's policy with running scripts).
Then I'll gladly help out. I have a Google Account.

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

Chakan4ever
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Chakan4ever »

Totally agree with making it fortnightly as I struggle to keep up.
Hetzen
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Hetzen »

Apologies for not being very active the last few weeks. I've got a busy project on and don't have much time recently.

I'm wondering if the Nominations and Selected game can stay in the same thread, so we end up with one thread per core. Changing the first post with a list of the winning/played games? If you don't get on with that game, you could report back on one of the other nominations.

Also I'm thinking we kick this off once a month. Randomly select an Arcade, Console and Computer core and maybe have a fourth category for recommendations from the previous month. Pace it out a bit. Maybe double up on the choices that month if one per is not enough.

We've all got busy schedules and this shouldn't be a chore.
User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

Hetzen wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:29 pm I'm wondering if the Nominations and Selected game can stay in the same thread, so we end up with one thread per core. Changing the first post with a list of the winning/played games? If you don't get on with that game, you could report back on one of the other nominations.
How do others feel about this? I don't have strong feelings either way. One post is easier to keep up with than multiple. The reason I was posting them separately was to try to highlight the selected random game and encourage discussion for that game specifically. I worried that everything in one thread would get hard to keep track of, but if the consensus is that we'd rather have it more contained, I can understand and support that too.
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

I think two threads is a good idea so that the selected game gets to shine a little bit. I agree that tons of threads get messy but if we decide to slow down the pace of how many games we do per month it might not become as messy.

Regarding how many games per month I think it all depends on what type of game gets picked. If it's a simple old school arcade game it might lead to a week of discussions, then quiet for three weeks. Or not.

Could we start with two weeks per game and see how that works and if we feel like it, change to one game per month? I'm not against the idea of one game per month since it actually gives us some time to play and digest the game and really have some fruitful discussions on it, and also not being that worried about nominating RPG:s. It also makes the time frame clear. "Game club game for April - WarioWare Inc. GBA".

Man, now I don’t know what I think :D

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

Hetzen
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Hetzen »

Sorry :), didn't want to add any confusion to this.

I agree that unique threads make the games pop out and I guess that is the point of this part of the forum. Although the using of the core in the first place is as interesting.

Agree, see how fortnightly works out.
User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

So we all agree that sowing down is the right move. Let's start with every two weeks, and if we still feel we want or need more time, we can do a monthly game. Nominations from the Genesis/MD post will remain open until the weekend after this coming weekend in that case (October 22nd).

Another thing I've been thinking about is how some platforms are so widely loved that just one random game from the list of nominations can feel too limited. Perhaps we can keep those posts running indefinitely but re-select another random game periodically within a single post instead of making new posts for each game. We could even keep the nominations open for new additions forever. Or something like that.

The GBA nominations were really good, and just one game from that list was not enough to satiate my appetite. I have a feeling it will be the same with the Genesis and the SNES (whenever that finally comes up on random).

The Atari 800XL core seemed to generate a big response, but the random game so far has not. Boulder Dash is a classic, but I really want to encourage participation and discussion. Longer periods will hopefully help with that.
User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

I want people to be playing games they're excited about, so I've been thinking about how to make the more popular games more likely to come up when we use the randomizer.

We avoided just taking a vote on what game to play because of the potential for needing tie-breakers due to the relatively low number of participants voting. It could take potentially twice the amount of time - or more - to settle a single round.

Charmless suggested that we choose randomly from the top three nominated games, which I like. But before we go in that direction I wanted to bring this up for discussion.

What does everyone think? How do we tune this process?
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

PistolsAtDawn wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:43 pm I want people to be playing games they're excited about, so I've been thinking about how to make the more popular games more likely to come up when we use the randomizer.

We avoided just taking a vote on what game to play because of the potential for needing tie-breakers due to the relatively low number of participants voting. It could take potentially twice the amount of time - or more - to settle a single round.

Charmless suggested that we choose randomly from the top three nominated games, which I like. But before we go in that direction I wanted to bring this up for discussion.

What does everyone think? How do we tune this process?
I think that would make it so the more popular games get picked. The downside is that less known games might get lost in the shuffle.

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

User avatar
PistolsAtDawn
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 pm
Has thanked: 234 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by PistolsAtDawn »

charmless wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:09 pm I think that would make it so the more popular games get picked. The downside is that less known games might get lost in the shuffle.
Yes, that was something I considered too. I wouldn't love it if every game picked was one of the popular ones that we all know already, but I also don't love it when there's little discussion and participation because the game only appeals to a couple of people. I think however it is worth a try because so far most of the games that have been nominated are not familiar to me - especially on platforms that I didn't own or have any contact with when they were current.

If we were to pick a game randomly from the top three, here is how that would have worked out for the Mega Drive / Genesis post: Zombies Ate My Neighbors got two people seconding the nomination and Gunstar Heroes got three. The rest of the seconded games are all tied with one. So right there is the situation I wanted to avoid.

I think weighting those two games by each receiving multiple entries on the list would be the way to go here since no new vote would be necessary yet those two games would be better represented. This is akin to a raffle drawing where you are more likely to have one of your tickets selected at random when more of them are put into the bowl/hat/whatever. Gunstar Heroes would be on the list three times and Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be on it twice. All other seconded games will be on the list just once.

The random game could still be any of the other seconded games, just a little more likely to be the top-seconded games.

I would appreciate some additional thoughts on this from everyone!
User avatar
charmless
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by charmless »

PistolsAtDawn wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:07 pm
charmless wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:09 pm I think that would make it so the more popular games get picked. The downside is that less known games might get lost in the shuffle.
Yes, that was something I considered too. I wouldn't love it if every game picked was one of the popular ones that we all know already, but I also don't love it when there's little discussion and participation because the game only appeals to a couple of people. I think however it is worth a try because so far most of the games that have been nominated are not familiar to me - especially on platforms that I didn't own or have any contact with when they were current.

If we were to pick a game randomly from the top three, here is how that would have worked out for the Mega Drive / Genesis post: Zombies Ate My Neighbors got two people seconding the nomination and Gunstar Heroes got three. The rest of the seconded games are all tied with one. So right there is the situation I wanted to avoid.

I think weighting those two games by each receiving multiple entries on the list would be the way to go here since no new vote would be necessary yet those two games would be better represented. This is akin to a raffle drawing where you are more likely to have one of your tickets selected at random when more of them are put into the bowl/hat/whatever. Gunstar Heroes would be on the list three times and Zombies Ate My Neighbors would be on it twice. All other seconded games will be on the list just once.

The random game could still be any of the other seconded games, just a little more likely to be the top-seconded games.

I would appreciate some additional thoughts on this from everyone!
Sounds like the way to go.

tvspelsdagboken I run a video game site (in Swedish)

Hetzen
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Community Game Club Structure & Feedback

Unread post by Hetzen »

Sounds a good idea to use weightings.
Post Reply