Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

jca wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:15 pm The core tries to boot from C and says that there is no operating system but does not boot from A and I cannot figure out how to make boot from A while C is mounted.
I also tried using a HD from AO465 but it says Booting C, no .............. and stays there.
To boot from A, press A when the XTIDE information is displayed, or F2 to select boot drive from a menu.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by EeDee »

I have had similar problems to @Venice and @jca with getting this Core to behave itself (although I don't use Update All as I have an aversion to "automatic" stuff) but am trying to work through them. The Developers have done a Stirling job! It does work but takes some messing about to get used to it.
Maybe try to get the system to recognise a Type 1 HDD to start with (using PCem or 86Box) or fiddle about with getting different BIOS' to load (boy did I struggle!!), then building from there.
I could, of course, be missing your particular difficulties entirely :)
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jca »

@ spark2k06 Thanks, I must have pressed the A too late during my tests, for the Boot Menu I did not really see how to change the boot drive. I will check later. Instead I rebooted and used A to boot from the floppy, was able to FORMAT /S C:, my previously partitioned HD, copy everything from A to C and rebooted from C. Success! :)
Thanks so much for this core and all the work you spent on it.
Now is time to investigate the numerous options, BIOSes, ..
Does anyone has any recommendation? It look like the Tandy is very popular. Does anyone has a Quick Start Guide for this one?
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by Malor »

For booting from floppy when a C drive is present, at least on real PCs, the BIOS usually needs a setting toggled. An old BIOS like that is likely to have something very primitive, like a toggle between C,A and A,C.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

Malor wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:06 pm For booting from floppy when a C drive is present, at least on real PCs, the BIOS usually needs a setting toggled. An old BIOS like that is likely to have something very primitive, like a toggle between C,A and A,C.
With XTIDE present, it is XTIDE that rules the boot order, rather than the original BIOS.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jordi »

venice wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:45 pm Hi@all,
many many thanks for all the work you do to get this core

But here the system stops, the cursor is blinking :o but nothing more happens.
Any Idea why? Do I miss something :? .

Maybe someone can explain
Note 2: It is also important to update all ROMs based on the new XTIDE BIOS, and located in the folder "..\SW\ROMs"
to me. Do I have to update some ROM files manually?

Btw, there is a second "pcxt_micro8088.rom" within the ZIP of the freedos VHD which has another checksum.

Thanks again for this Cool-Core
Hi! I've updated the .zip with roms and vhd with updated memory segments.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jca »

There was no need for a setting: the boot order was A and next C. You want to boot from a floppy you insert a bootable floppy in drive A. You want to boot from C you don't insert a bootable floppy in drive A.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by Malor »

Ah, so not even a toggle then. As you can tell, it's been a great long while since I owned an XT. :) (and I never really did, in one sense, because my XT was a PC Bridgeboard inside an Amiga 2000.)
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

jordi wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:44 pm Hi! I did the quickstart! I'll try soon this freedos version and I'll come back to you . I hope it's not an incompatibility with free DOS
Thank you for the pull request with the necessary change in the image to fit the new memory model, it would be available to everyone:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PCXT_Mi ... games/PCXT
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by flynnsbit »

spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:31 am
jordi wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:44 pm Hi! I did the quickstart! I'll try soon this freedos version and I'll come back to you . I hope it's not an incompatibility with free DOS
Thank you for the pull request with the necessary change in the image to fit the new memory model, it would be available to everyone:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PCXT_Mi ... games/PCXT
Should that image (VHD) be using A000 in LTEMM or C000? I've been battling with the Tandy bios specifically all day. It seems to overwrite the high memory space on certain situations when Tandy graphics are used. even using a basic program. I should have a good image to test with tomorrow. The Tandy 1000 bios is the only one with this weird behavior.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

flynnsbit wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:45 am Should that image be using A000 in LTEMM or C000? I've been battling with the Tandy bios specifically all day. It seems to overwrite the high memory space on certain situations when Tandy graphics are used. even using a basic program. I should have a good image to test with tomorrow. The Tandy 1000 bios is the only one with this weird behavior.
In the new release I have avoided the use of the A000 segment for EMS, because it is a memory area used by EGA/VGA, and some games can write there just to verify its existence... that's why now from the OSD, you can only select C000, D000 or E000 for EMS memory (this last one better avoid it because we will normally use it for XTIDE), and on the other hand, I leave the option to use A000 as UMB memory or disable it to avoid false EGA/VGA detection and data corruption due to overwriting.

In this case it is not a Tandy problem, from A000 onwards Tandy should not come into play at all.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by flynnsbit »

spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:53 am
flynnsbit wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:45 am Should that image be using A000 in LTEMM or C000? I've been battling with the Tandy bios specifically all day. It seems to overwrite the high memory space on certain situations when Tandy graphics are used. even using a basic program. I should have a good image to test with tomorrow. The Tandy 1000 bios is the only one with this weird behavior.
In the new release I have avoided the use of the A000 segment for EMS, because it is a memory area used by EGA/VGA, and some games can write there just to verify its existence... that's why now from the OSD, you can only select C000, D000 or E000 for EMS memory (this last one better avoid it because we will normally use it for XTIDE), and on the other hand, I leave the option to use A000 as UMB memory or disable it to avoid false EGA/VGA detection and data corruption due to overwriting.

In this case it is not a Tandy problem, from A000 onwards Tandy should not come into play at all.
makes sense. I just wanted you to be aware that it was set to A000 in the VHD in the repo.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

flynnsbit wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:30 am
spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:53 am
flynnsbit wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:45 am Should that image be using A000 in LTEMM or C000? I've been battling with the Tandy bios specifically all day. It seems to overwrite the high memory space on certain situations when Tandy graphics are used. even using a basic program. I should have a good image to test with tomorrow. The Tandy 1000 bios is the only one with this weird behavior.
In the new release I have avoided the use of the A000 segment for EMS, because it is a memory area used by EGA/VGA, and some games can write there just to verify its existence... that's why now from the OSD, you can only select C000, D000 or E000 for EMS memory (this last one better avoid it because we will normally use it for XTIDE), and on the other hand, I leave the option to use A000 as UMB memory or disable it to avoid false EGA/VGA detection and data corruption due to overwriting.

In this case it is not a Tandy problem, from A000 onwards Tandy should not come into play at all.
makes sense. I just wanted you to be aware that it was set to A000 in the VHD in the repo.
Looks like @jordi forgot to update that, thanks for the warning... I've already changed it:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PCXT_Mi ... games/PCXT
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jordi »

spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:23 am
flynnsbit wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:30 am
spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:53 am

In the new release I have avoided the use of the A000 segment for EMS, because it is a memory area used by EGA/VGA, and some games can write there just to verify its existence... that's why now from the OSD, you can only select C000, D000 or E000 for EMS memory (this last one better avoid it because we will normally use it for XTIDE), and on the other hand, I leave the option to use A000 as UMB memory or disable it to avoid false EGA/VGA detection and data corruption due to overwriting.

In this case it is not a Tandy problem, from A000 onwards Tandy should not come into play at all.
makes sense. I just wanted you to be aware that it was set to A000 in the VHD in the repo.
Looks like @jordi forgot to update that, thanks for the warning... I've already changed it:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PCXT_Mi ... games/PCXT
Woop sorry
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by arromdee »

What do I need to do to get ctmouse to work?

My config.sys is based on one from this thread:

Code: Select all

FILES=40
BUFFERS = 30
DOS = HIGH, UMB
DEVICE=C:\USE!UMBS.SYS A000-B000 D000-EC00
DEVICE=C:\DOSMAX\DOSMAX.EXE /R+ /N+ /P-
DEVICEHIGH=C:\LTEMM.EXE /p:C000 /x
DEVICEHIGH=C:\FREEDOS\NANSI.SYS
SHELL=C:\DOSMAX\SHELLMAX.COM C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:256 /P
All the programs mentioned in the config.sys exist in the directories shown.

Autoexec.bat only sets a prompt. I am using Tandy, Lo-Tech 2MB EMS Enabled, EMS Frame:C000, A000 UMB: Enabled. MS-DOS 6.22. If I execute ctmouse from the command line (with or without LH), it runs but I get a lockup when I try to use edit or msd. If I use the MSDOS mouse driver, these work and the mouse functions. The ctmouse.exe is from freedos 1.3 and works with ao486 (although the mouse in that is emulated as PS/2, it's serial here).
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

arromdee wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 am What do I need to do to get ctmouse to work?

My config.sys is based on one from this thread:

Code: Select all

FILES=40
BUFFERS = 30
DOS = HIGH, UMB
DEVICE=C:\USE!UMBS.SYS A000-B000 D000-EC00
DEVICE=C:\DOSMAX\DOSMAX.EXE /R+ /N+ /P-
DEVICEHIGH=C:\LTEMM.EXE /p:C000 /x
DEVICEHIGH=C:\FREEDOS\NANSI.SYS
SHELL=C:\DOSMAX\SHELLMAX.COM C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:256 /P
All the programs mentioned in the config.sys exist in the directories shown.

Autoexec.bat only sets a prompt. I am using Tandy, Lo-Tech 2MB EMS Enabled, EMS Frame:C000, A000 UMB: Enabled. MS-DOS 6.22. If I execute ctmouse from the command line (with or without LH), it runs but I get a lockup when I try to use edit or msd. If I use the MSDOS mouse driver, these work and the mouse functions. The ctmouse.exe is from freedos 1.3 and works with ao486 (although the mouse in that is emulated as PS/2, it's serial here).
If the MSDos mouse driver works better than ctmouse, definitely use that one...we'll keep it in mind to recommend it in the README in that case.

ctmouse and edit don't get along well with some BIOSes.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by arromdee »

The post I based my config.sys on (with obvious changes) specifically mentions using ctmouse.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by venice »

Thanks for the FreeDos Image changes but I still can't get it working with the "pcxt_micro8088.rom".
It boots, but it waits at the same point as before (see viewtopic.php?p=64550#p64550).

But I was able to install DOS5 onto the Freedos HDD with the same "pcxt_micro8088.rom".
Now I can start to play around.

Many Thanks :D

//Edit
The FreeDOS 1.3 Floppy Edition Boot Disk "waits" at the some point after booting using the "pcxt_micro8088.rom".
With the „pcxt.rom“ i get a simple „Error“.

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jca »

@Venice
First Jordi posted a new hdd image zip containing the vhd but also pcxt.rom and ide_xtl.rom but there was still some problem of some sort.
So spark2k06 posted a new hdd image zip containing only the vhd.
After seeing your post I tried with pcxt.rom which is 64K, I have no idea what is ide_xtl.rom so I did not do anything with it and I used the latest vhd image. It boots.
I don't really know what I am doing with these roms and what they are. I attach the 2 roms which are now missing from the hdd image zip.
At least you will be able to boot FreeDos. Use at your own risk :lol:
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by venice »

jca wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:03 pm ...
After seeing your post I tried with pcxt.rom which is 64K, I have no idea what is ide_xtl.rom so I did not do anything with it and I used the latest vhd image. It boots.
I don't really know what I am doing with these roms and what they are. I attach the 2 roms which are now missing from the hdd image zip.
At least you will be able to boot FreeDos. Use at your own risk :lol:
Jepp, with the files pcxt.rom and ide_xtl.rom it works for me as well.
Thx

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jca »

Glad it helped. On my side I only used the pcxt rom and did not know what do do with ide_xtl.rom which is fairly small at 12KB. What did you do with it and what it is for? Considering its name it must be related to HD but I have no idea.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by venice »

At the same Core Config Dialog were you choose the System-ROM (XT/Tandy) you can choose the IDE-ROM
which will be used if no IDE-ROM is integrated into the used System ROM.

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by arromdee »

spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:39 am If the MSDos mouse driver works better than ctmouse, definitely use that one...we'll keep it in mind to recommend it in the README in that case.
It turns out that ctmouse 1.9.1 and 2.0 alpha 4 work. It's the 2.1 beta 4 specifically which doesn't work.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

arromdee wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:46 am
spark2k06 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:39 am If the MSDos mouse driver works better than ctmouse, definitely use that one...we'll keep it in mind to recommend it in the README in that case.
It turns out that ctmouse 1.9.1 and 2.0 alpha 4 work. It's the 2.1 beta 4 specifically which doesn't work.
In the MiSTer-devel repository, I am providing version 1.9:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/PCXT_Mi ... dd/CTMOUSE

Is this one giving you problems? Can you check it?
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by arromdee »

1.9 also works. The problem seems to be specific to 2.1.
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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by Caldor »

I tested the new core, the newest official release. Had to update the MiSTer Main and the ROMs as well, but then it worked. It could not find the HDDs before I replaced the XTide bios. I got mouse and RAM working, ran Monkey Island with Tandy graphics, mouse and adlib audio.

I tried some other games as well, that did not work before, but none of those had begun working it seems. Still, it runs much better now. I changed the memory setup. I have not experienced it crashing, so I guess it works. I did have some trouble finding \ on the keyboard. Would probably help if I just used a full EU keyboard, this one is a small keyboard with the keypad hidden in FN keys like on a laptop and it seems to be a US keyboard, but not sure.

Its not a key that is used in games anyway, and I got around it by using copy paste in the editors.

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by jordi »

Caldor wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:12 am

I tested the new core, the newest official release. Had to update the MiSTer Main and the ROMs as well, but then it worked. It could not find the HDDs before I replaced the XTide bios. I got mouse and RAM working, ran Monkey Island with Tandy graphics, mouse and adlib audio.

I tried some other games as well, that did not work before, but none of those had begun working it seems. Still, it runs much better now. I changed the memory setup. I have not experienced it crashing, so I guess it works. I did have some trouble finding \ on the keyboard. Would probably help if I just used a full EU keyboard, this one is a small keyboard with the keypad hidden in FN keys like on a laptop and it seems to be a US keyboard, but not sure.

Its not a key that is used in games anyway, and I got around it by using copy paste in the editors.

Non working games are reported?

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by Caldor »

jordi wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:48 am
Caldor wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:12 am

I tested the new core, the newest official release. Had to update the MiSTer Main and the ROMs as well, but then it worked. It could not find the HDDs before I replaced the XTide bios. I got mouse and RAM working, ran Monkey Island with Tandy graphics, mouse and adlib audio.

I tried some other games as well, that did not work before, but none of those had begun working it seems. Still, it runs much better now. I changed the memory setup. I have not experienced it crashing, so I guess it works. I did have some trouble finding \ on the keyboard. Would probably help if I just used a full EU keyboard, this one is a small keyboard with the keypad hidden in FN keys like on a laptop and it seems to be a US keyboard, but not sure.

Its not a key that is used in games anyway, and I got around it by using copy paste in the editors.

Non working games are reported?

No, because I am not sure they are supposed to work on a PCXT computer in the first place. It was Adventures of Robin Hood and Shadoworld.

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by spark2k06 »

Caldor wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:42 am

No, because I am not sure they are supposed to work on a PCXT computer in the first place. It was Adventures of Robin Hood and Shadoworld.

If you don't have a real PCXT, you can always use an emulator like PCem or 86Box, using the same configuration and HD image ;)

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Re: Development of an XTIDE-Compatible IDE

Unread post by Caldor »

spark2k06 wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:33 am
Caldor wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:42 am

No, because I am not sure they are supposed to work on a PCXT computer in the first place. It was Adventures of Robin Hood and Shadoworld.

If you don't have a real PCXT, you can always use an emulator like PCem or 86Box, using the same configuration and HD image ;)

I am not sure the exact same image can run in PCem? I already did make a setup. I plan on trying to do that comparison when I have a few more games to test.

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