Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

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moroder
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Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

Hi, I'm having severe scrolling issues on the shmup-sidescrolling levels on the mister fpga. The first and third shmup levels have these issues, the second one (the slow one) does not.

Game: https://sonicslothgames.itch.io/turrican2aga

I posted videos of the bugs:

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mapf
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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by mapf »

I just tried the PAL floppy version, and can see no scrolling issues in the first level. My settings for minimig are A1200 with 2+8MB, no hdd and two floppy drives. Kickstart 3.1.

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moroder
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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

No.... It's not in the first level. Like I said, it's the shmup-levels.World. 3. Watch this video I recorded...
Like I said, it's a problem in level 3-1 and 3-3. 3-2 (the slow scrolling one) does not have it.

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mapf
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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by mapf »

Thanks for the video and the explanation, I will check later if I see the same in 3-1.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by throAU »

hmmm heard about this version of turrican earlier this week and just looked up a youtube video of it. just me, or does the original OCS version look better? main sprite and the enemy sprites look... off.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

There's something strange when running Turrican II Aga on Mister, as if the right part of the screen is slightly cut (the graphic border next to the life bar e.g.). Gotta check the 3rd level later.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

throAU wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:14 am

hmmm heard about this version of turrican earlier this week and just looked up a youtube video of it. just me, or does the original OCS version look better? main sprite and the enemy sprites look... off.

You can choose the classic Amiga main sprite or the bulky DOS one before playing.

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moroder
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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

throAU wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:14 am

hmmm heard about this version of turrican earlier this week and just looked up a youtube video of it. just me, or does the original OCS version look better? main sprite and the enemy sprites look... off.

Didn't make this thread to discuss opinions on the game, just want to squeeze out the bugs :)

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by kathleen »

@moroder,

I haven't tried yet this new game (and if I'll do, I'm not sure that I'll reach the world 3 :-( ), but I'm just thinking to something which could potentially create this issue. Have you tried to removed the D-Cache in the A1200 system settings ?

かすりん

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

Just reached the shooter section, same glitchy scrolling. Also, my D-Cache was set to OFF from the start. Sorry!

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by mapf »

@moroder,

I can confirm the issue. The new turrican has a built-in trainer so it is easy to reach world 3. D-Cache was off in my case.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by Hodor »

It would be nice to open an issue on Github.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

Hodor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:27 pm

It would be nice to open an issue on Github.

Yes, I don't have a user there, will make one tomorrow unless someone here already has an account there and beats me to it.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by PikWik »

aww, i was looking forward to trying this version out.
i have the PAL version downloaded on the MiSTer, just havent loaded it up yet

fingers crossed its a simple fix!

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

DanHero wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:47 pm

Just reached the shooter section, same glitchy scrolling. Also, my D-Cache was set to OFF from the start. Sorry!

I see you beat me to it on github :)

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

Yeah, I used your video too, hope it is not a problem.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

DanHero wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:48 am

Yeah, I used your video too, hope it is not a problem.

no worries, we all want this fixed

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by Jimiga »

Hi - just to post a quick follow up. There's some info from the dev on this topic explaining that the issue lies with MiSTers AGA core's copper timing. There's a more in depth explanation here:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=112916&page=17

Great to know that it's not an issue with the game, hopefully identifying this helps lead to developments with the core that may eventually iron out these issues. I'll loop back on the Github page and add to the thread there. It sounds like a lot of people want to enjoy this game on MiSTer!

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by FoxbatStargazer »

Dunno if it's the copper itself or that the 68020 is like... 10x faster than it should be! It's not even in the ballpark of a correct CPU speed, never mind cycle accuracy! Sounds like a lot of work but it would be nice from multiple angles for the 68020 to at least roughly approximate the OG speed. (and maybe add a 68020+ option for the current all-out speed demon)

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by LamerDeluxe »

If this gets fixed, I hope it also fixes the problems with Hybris (outlines of score and other slight problems), as those could very well be related to copper timing.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by Optiroc »

Yep, inaccurate AGA chipset timings cause a lot of minor issues here and there, while you’d be hard pressed to find a reason to have more accurate 020 timings.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by limi »

FoxbatStargazer wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:04 am

Dunno if it's the copper itself or that the 68020 is like... 10x faster than it should be!

SysInfo isn’t a good benchmarking tool, the calculations it does are not very representative of real world app performance (hence why it is named “SysInfo”) — it’s a tool to get a quick overview of what system you are dealing with and maybe get a ballpark performance number.

If you use a recognized “proper” benchmarking tool with a suite of tests like AIBB (Amiga Intuition-Based Benchmarks), it comes out roughly like this when you ask it for a summary:

MiSTer Minimig core is:

  • ~5× the speed of an Amiga 1200

  • ~2× the speed of an Amiga 3000/25

  • ~1.5× the speed of an Amiga 4000/040 — but is slower than the A4000 on gfx and floating point

As stated in that thread, it’s not too far off the experience of using an A4000 or an A1200 with a 50MHz ’030 expansion. The disks are a lot faster than your typical setup at the time though, which makes it feel a lot snappier in use.

It's not even in the ballpark of a correct CPU speed, never mind cycle accuracy!

To my knowledge, there is no software, games or demos for the Amiga that requires or relies on 68020 cycle accuracy.

For the 68000, the case is of course different. :)

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by ericgus09 »

I also dont think its CPU speed with this as this game runs ok on the Vampire which is significantly faster..

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

Hi, any news about the scrolling issue?

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

DanHero wrote: Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:54 pm

Hi, any news about the scrolling issue?

Seems not. Really surprised that noone is looking into this. :?

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by limi »

Did you file a bug?

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by segamemister »

limi wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:59 am

Did you file a bug?

someone did awhile back

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Minimig ... issues/158

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by DanHero »

it was me, last december. No love for Turry :(

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by Optiroc »

I don’t think there’s lack of love, but there are precious few people that would be able to fix the AGA chipset timings. Basically only a handful of people have intimate knowledge of undocumented AGA details (and it’s famously poorly documented), and another handful know their way around the minimig codebase. Not sure about how much these overlap.

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Re: Turrican II AGA Scrolling Issues

Unread post by moroder »

one year later, still no fix :(

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